Picture Taking
April 23rd, 2007 @ 12:33 pm by Mrs. Kiwi
Recently a letter was printed in Dear Abby’s column regarding people bringing cameras to weddings:
DEAR ABBY: The wedding season is approaching, and on behalf of all professional photographers, I’m writing about the rudeness of wedding guests who bring their own cameras to the wedding ceremony. They behave as if they’re at a tourist attraction.
Professional photographers honor church rules, and often the wishes of the wedding party, by not “blinding” the bride, the groom or the clergy by taking flash photos during the ceremony.
After the ceremony, when we’re trying to set up formal group pictures, these same guests jump in front of us like paparazzi! I’ve even seen mothers of the bride whip out a camera. Why do people hire a professional photographer and then allow this to happen?
Abby, please inform these people how rude they are. The bride and groom have hired us to capture their wedding on film. If the wedding guests want pictures, they can order them through the bride. Guests do not bring extra flowers or an extra cake to supplement the efforts of the florist and caterer, so why do they do this to the photographer? Our job must be done in a timely manner, and the kind of interference I have described prevents us from doing our best work in the least amount of time. — MIFFED PRO IN SOUTH CAROLINA
Abby’s response was:
DEAR MIFFED: I’m printing your message, but it’s not going to be popular. I agree that taking flash pictures during a church service is considered rude, and it can detract from the solemnity of the ceremony.
However, most couples appreciate both the formal photographs and the amateur snapshots. Candid shots caught by amateurs often reflect the personalities of the wedding party and guests better than the formal, posed portraits taken by professionals because the subjects are more relaxed.
P.S. Some photographers avoid the problems you’re encountering by taking their formal portraits before the ceremony. If this doesn’t work for you, consider bringing an assistant along to help with “crowd control.”
This letter was fitting, as I was at a wedding on Saturday taking pictures of the church (before any of the wedding party showed up). Mr. Kiwi got a little miffed at me because he said, “I can come in and take pictures during the week, if you want them.” Meaning it was distracting. Hrmph. I put my camera away, not bothering to point out the rest of the people flashing away and tried to focus on the incredibly long ceremony.
When I read the above letter, it was a little angering. If my brother is getting married, am I supposed to NOT take pictures of him for my own albums? Sure, I’m not popping in front of the photographer to get a good shot, but I would still like to take pictures with my own camera.
What do you think? Do you agree with the photographer that the only cameras should be theirs?
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31 Responses to “Picture Taking”
i think guest photos are great as long as guests defer to the photographer to some extent. (i.e. jumping in front of the pro for portraits sounds inappropriate, but i have *never* seen this happen…) as long as the guest w/camera is respectful and not over-the-top, i can’t see any reason why a pro would have any problem with additional shutterbugs. though, from the pro’s letter, it sounds like she’s run into a particularly rude batch of wedding guests!
personally, i love the shots that my guests took, and e’d to me. and i can’t think of any incident where anyone got in my pro’s way while she shot the wedding.
We are going to ask that guests not take any photos during the ceremony due to the distraction. Also for the formal shots afterward, the photographer will take everything we have asked her to take, then we will give guests 5 - 10 minutes to take pics of their own after our photog is finished.
I get dear abby every day and when I read that I was really angry at first, but then I thought about it and realized that to some extent the photographer is right. If guests are jumping in front of them with flash cameras then that is going to throw off the lighting and the bride is paying probably over $1000 for these photos so I’m sure she would prefer them to come out well. However, I think that the photographer and guests can live in harmony if the guests stand off to the sideline or behind the photographer to get the shot (no flash), because essentially if they are in the photographers way then they are basically trying to capture the same picture as the photographer only (more than likely) of less quality. Hope that makes sense.
I think it essentially comes down to having respect for each other, not necessarily one side is wrong one side right.
We ran into a few photog’s with the same philosophy during our photog search. Needless to say, they were marked off our list with the quickness. Yes, jumping in front of a photog is extremely rude (and I’ve never seen this done), and I also understand how other little flashes could mess up the lighting for the pro shots. However, expecting guests not to take photos at all and expecting them to purchase their photos from the pro is just a little to extreme for me.
To me, a real professional would know how to deal with guests cameras rather than just complaining about their existence. All our top picks had similar philosophies in this area–they would step aside and allow a minute or so for guests to snap their pics, then they would take their shots completely uninterrupted.
If photographer’s didn’t charge $5-7 for a single 4×6 of their work, then maybe I wouldn’t bother taking pictures and just buy them. And let’s not forget how many of us have pictures of wedding parties where no one is looking at our camera because they’re all looking at the professional’s. One time I went to a wedding and my FH told me to move for the photographer and I did (I hadn’t seen him behind me). I’m more than happy to stay out of the way because I know how expensive these things are, especially when they’re charging by the hour and guests distract enough to add on more time.
It’s the reason we are offering the cocktail stuff before dinner, and we are going to have our officiant invite everyone to enjoy themselves while we finish up in the church. Hopefully, people will get the hint that if they’re not in the pictures they shouldn’t be in the church. Plus, our church has a hallway next to the chapel which we will duck into after we leave and re-enter the church from the back so no one will see us and we won’t have to stop and gush with our guests.
No, I don’t want people to take flash photography during the ceremony, except that hopefully it will be outside in bright daylight so it won’t matter. Other than that, I WANT people to take as many pictures as possible. Have at it, guests! You never know who is going to get the best picture of the night.
when i read this last week i was surprised and then a bit annoyed. it just seemed a bit unreasonable for the photogs to be annoyed at other people snapping pictures. i haven’t seen any overzealous people jumping in front of the pros during posed pictures [mainly because people weren't ever in attendance for the posed formals - they were taken away from the venues].
if i want pictures, then i’ll take them. i find the prices to be way too expensive and rarely can you get a regualar 4×6 size photo. the pictures guests take are for their memory as well, not just for the bride and groom. geez. people get so touchy about weddings. lol
We actually met with a photog. who wanted a couple of aisles in the middle of the church (ie in front of guests) blocked off for equip. He was quickly ruled out. He went through several other requirements but the idea of him running pew to pew in front of guests sounded really distracting. Other demands seems reasonable but unnecessary. Having been to enough weddings and never having seen this done, I decided to just rule him out immediately. Our photog. made comment that he tries to limit the guests around during “portraits” for lighting interference but he knows they will be there and he is able to work around them.
I think guests photos are a great way to see all of your guests having a great time and having fun. On a knot bio. I saw a bride who had provided cds and envelopes instead of table cameras for the guests to burn the photos from their digi cams onto those and mail them back. We are doing that now too.
I think rather than writing a letter asking guests to not bring cameras, he should have written a letter asking them to be respectful.
Part of the fun of walking down the aisle will be having everyone snapping photos of you!
He should have just said:
*Don’t step in front of the photographer
*Give them some space during formal portraits
*No flash during ceremony
*Go wild during the reception! that’s a great time to get good candid shots, especially of other guests (the photographer is photographing the bride and groom, maybe I want to see pics of my guests having a good time!)
I read this the other day and I totally disagree with the photographer. As much as I loved our photographer and their pictures…I did not see them for 5 or 6 weeks after the wedding. But, much to our delight, when we got home from our HM, many of our friends/family had printed or emailed pictures of the wedding for us. It was so nice to see our wedding immediately (even if the pictures weren’t as high of quality) while we waited for the professional pics. AND…our friends took pictures that no photographer would think to (groups of friends, silly shots, etc.)
I agree and disagree. The ceremony is just that a ceremony and if its in a church everyone including the photographer needs to respect that. Some churchs allow no pictures at all or no flash. Personally I will not have a problem with people taking pictures as long as they dont jump in front of the person I am paying (a lot) of money to do his job.
Sorry photographer, I am paying you far too much money to not allow my loved ones to snap a few shots… We have a lot of friends that are pretty awesome photographers, and we hope that they get some great candid shots of our big day! I’m sure that our professional photographer can handle a few camera happy people getting in his way…
I don’t agree with that photographer. While no one should be jumping in front of them to take pictures, I want my guests to feel like they can take their own pictures too. They may capture things my photog misses, or even be more creative and get some funny shots.
Plus not only are professional pictures expensive to buy, but they take quite a long time to be finished. We won’t have ours until about 2-3 months after the wedding. If our guests didn’t take photos as well we wouldn’t see anything for quite a while after the wedding…and that would stink.
This photographer needs to find a way to deal with the guests better.
Hmmm. I am a professional photographer. I don’t agree with the letter at all, but I see it’s points.
I and most photographers actually don’t mind at all when guests take photos. For the formals, as long as I can get mine first, I’ll then step back and your guests can click away all they want. I’ll often explain to the guests, ” Let me get my shots first and I’ll step back and you can then get yours”. The only time it angers me is when guests ignore that request and get very pushy to still get in that shot. Once I asked a woman just wouldn’t stop. She’s always pop in and say, just one more. Then she would laugh at me as if she won some sort of game.
I’m not there to compete or to sell single shots. The market has changed. Now most of us just don’t sell single prints anymore. In my packages the bride and groom get the full CD set, so why would I mind if a guest is taking the same shot? As I see it I’m there to work for the bride and groom. I don’t mind if guests take shots but just tell them not to compete with me. If they do it makes the job very difficult for me. My job is to get all the photos for the bride and grooms book and album. I work for them exlusively. That’s my top priority, that’s what I’m there for. So please just don’t get in my way, and all is good.
As for the lighting. Yes, point and shoot guest cameras can really mess us up. We go out of our way to avoid shadows and red eye. Point and shoot cameras with the flash at eye level obviously get red eye and shadows. So, when your guest are clicking away at the same time as me. I’ll often get bad shadows and red eye from their flash. This again is why I ask the guests to just let me get in my shots first.
Sometimes it does get a bit discouraging at the ceremonies. Most priests, clergy etc already have a grudge and are ready to wage a war against us. I’m very unobtrusive. Yet, I understand a lot are not and have ruined the impression of us in the field of our job. So a lot of times I’m very restricted. Sometimes, I can’t take any shots at all, I can’t walk around, I have to stand in the back or the balcony and I can’t use flash. This also gets very discouraging, but we work with it. I also look at it as well at least they’ll have something if I’m not allowed to get any shots or only non flash views from the balcony.
The only thing that I absolutely won’t allow or tolerate is a semi-pro shooter who is working on their own wedding portfolio. Sometimes a bride will invite a 2nd photographer who is just started wedding photography or a semi-pro relative to get a 2nd prospective. Wow, again… this creates major competition for shots. The two times this has happened to me the night was just ridiculous. Please just don’t do this to us. If you want a 2nd shooter, we will bring one with us who is a coordinated shooter and who has a game plan with me. I had one of these guest at one time doing his own table shots, posing the who bridal party for his own formals. It wasn’t good at all.
And on one more note for the 5-7K a wedding. Yes, it’s expensive. My top package is 4K, but consider, I have so many expenses. Just a few are liability insurance, transportation, internet proofing, your album, 20K in equipment I bring with me, self employment tax, insurance on the equipment, shipping costs from the lab or album maker, lab costs, 2nd shooter fees. Out of every 4K wedding, after all the expenses and the taxes I make $1,500. Then divide that into the time I spend taking the photos, designing your album and editing the photos and it’s not that great of a living as one would assume form looking at our package prices.
In the end. I’ll just say when you are looking for a photographer. Find one who works for you. Find one that clicks with you. Find one who fits your personality. When you make the choice then work with us. We are there for you and not to compete in a phototaking football game with your guests.
We really care about you and want to capture your day in the best most unobtrusive way we can. If your photographer doesn’t do that… simply find someone else.
I’d sign my name to this but I don’t want anyone to think I’m trying for free advertising so I’ll leave this anonymously.
In my opinion, wedding photographers should be hired to capture what happens, not dictate what happens. If guests want to take photos (without flash in church), then the pros should have no problem with it.
totally agree w/ laura k that the letter should be about asking guests to be respectful and not “do not bring cameras”. that’s just stupid. i’m paying a lot for my photographer and know she’ll do a great job…regardless of how the guests behave. a professional should be able to handle it. i’ve been to a lot of weddings and never have i seen guests behave so badly that the photographer can’t do his/her job. what kind of wedding is that “miffed pro in south carolina” working?!
I’ve commented on a few posts before, so I feel comfortable posting here from a bride/vendor perspective. I’m a recent bride (march 3rd), as well as a professional photog and while I cant say that I agree with all of the mans rantings, I can agree with most of them. For the most part, I dont mind guests having cameras, but it does present some challenges, here are a few things to think about from a photographers side
1. it’s not realistic that the bride and groom let all guests know the church/venue photography policy or the formal photograph time frame. Unfortunatly that puts pros in a sticky situation-do we share policy/timelines with guests, potentially upsetting them or allow them to take pictures them potentially make the minister angry or the wedding party run late?
2. lighting does in fact matter, on top of red eye and shaddow concerns, flashes from additional camera can ‘blow out’ a picture, when there is too much light the picture is too bright and not useable. On pro camera a lot of us shoot manually, setting our cameras for very specific light values, and we cannot readjust for each guest taking a picture
3. multiple cameras usually mean people dont know where to look, our timeframe increases when we have to remind people to look at our cameras first, then guest cameras
and finally….
4. although most guests are wellbehaved during the reception :0), sometimes people get overzealous, if they dont notice they are standing in front of us during important, fast events such as a cake cutting or toasts, who is to blame for missing that shot, your photographer or the guest? I’m sure all of us would blame the photographer since thats who we’re paying, but it’s very difficult to move your attention away from the bride and groom to focus on where uncle harry may spontanously move during the cake cutting.
As a recent bride I certainly understand the importance of pics taken by friends and family, but before we wright off the views of this photographer I think some consideration should go into what he is trying to say.
Ok, I cant spell :0) Please excuse the poor grammar and spelling, I wish this thing had spell check!
I agree with:
1) Guests should not be an obstacle to the paid photog. One suggestion was to take pre-ceremony pics and I’m glad I’ll fall under this category!
2) Ceremony shots–particularly if it’s a dimly lit facility and/or candle lit–flashes can ruin the photogs once in a lifetime snapshot. Plus, in the days of disposables, who wants to hear “CLICK! Grind, grind, grind…”
However, this photog’s insistence that guests can just go online and/or order from the bride–those prices can be ridiculous! Nevermind that not every guest is a close intimate friend of the B&G (some are just acquiantances or friends) or has internet access.
The tone of that letter reeks of stuffy, not caring about the wedding demeanor. May be a good photog and may be 100% correct but the tone is just not classy.
I understand a little where the photographer is coming from, but I don’t agree with her. The photographer is hired by the couple, and part of being a wedding photographer is dealing with guests. If guests were being such a distraction, the photographer, being the professional, should have no problem politely asking certain distracting guests to hold off for a moment while they finish their shots.
Just like any job, there are going to be reasons why you cannot complete your job the way you would always like. Nobody’s job comes without any hinderance. It’s like getting a job as a customer service rep at a credit card company and not expecting any problems with customers.
You are a wedding photographer! You are being paid money (and a lot of it) for a few hours of your time and talents. Part of that talent is capturing a beautiful day despite difficulties. I can’t see a guest not being compliant if the photographer politely talked to the person.
The person who wrote the original letter will be very displeased with me: I plan to have my own camera available at the wedding, so I can get pictures from my own perspective. I’m not talking during the ceremony, although that would be hilarious, but I do expect to see just as many shots of me with camera in hand at the reception as I typically do after any other party.
it’s really up to the bride and groom, and this photographer sounds like s/he is overstepping his/her authority. He goes farther than I plan to, too. What I plan to ask of my guests it that they not use flash, remain in their places (ie, not in the aisles) during the ceremony, and not stand when the congregation is seated. My church is fairly strict about where the photographer is allowed, as well.
The only time I thought a photographer and guests were incompatible — when the photographer told the guests not to photograph the poses because he was the one who knew how to set them up (after the pro was done photographing that pose) — as if they were copyrighted! That was over the line.
I can understand not wanting guests to interrupt the formals but who is she to tell me to not bring my camera! My boyfriends sister has hired a photographer but also asked us (my boyfriend and myself) to take pictures as well. She knows that we enjoy photography, and that we will take the kinds of pictures that her photographer might miss or not have time for.
As a person who wanted to be a portrait photographer I am very confused by that letter. Does she think it’s ok for her to take her camera to family weddings because she is a professional?
As a studying photographer myself, I know that this situation can be frustrating, especially during the posed shots after the ceremony. The professional’s camera will pick up the flash from the other cameras and throw off the lighting that was, in most cases, carefully determined. I see no problem with the guests taking photos during the posed shots so long as they are considerate enough to time their flash so as to not conflict with the photographer’s and/ or by turning off their flash units entirely. Most digital cameras these days shoot well in low light.
I do not understand, however, why this photographer was annoyed by the guests taking photos. During the ceremony many sites do not permit people to take photos anyway, at least not with a flash. During the reception, people are not all taking photos of the same thing at the same angle at once, so the flash shouldn’t be as much of an issue.
I certainly would not hire this photographer because I feel that as a photographer, one should value the importance of a variety of perspectives. Personally, I would be terrified to shoot a wedding by myself. What if a great moment happened and I missed it because I was shooting something else. To me, it would be comforting to know that other people are there armed with cameras to make sure that the bride and groom have the best possible coverage of their special day!
I don’t think I should be required to buy a photo from the photographer’s collection, just to have a photo of a friend’s wedding. That’s absurd. Plus, professional photographers don’t capture EVERY moment. I agree with Abby when she said that a lot of couples enjoy having both professional and amateur photos. But, I do think there should be crowd control and this shouldn’t be the photographer’s job. At my sister’s wedding, formal pictures were a disaster! (Not the pictures, but the process of taking them.) There were probably 20 people with cameras. This will NOT be happening at my wedding. We are going to have our ushers help with crowd control. I think that the people who bring the cameras should practice common courtesy.
I don’t think it is reasonable to ask guests to not take pictures at all, ask them to turn off the flash yes, keep them busy and away from the wedding party with a good “cocktail hour” so they don’t distract yes. Ask them to not get in the way of the pro, yes. But that is more of a courtesy to the bride and groom and money they spent on the photog than the photog themselves, this is their job, they should know how to handle those types of guests politely.
Few brides actually share their pro photos with their guests to even give us the option of ordering copies of those anyway, esp if the photog shoots on film. I refuse to come home with NO pictures of a close friend or relatives wedding. Plus as a bride getting emails of photos from friends helped me survive the wait until the pro photos came in.
I’m another professional photographer. I’m generally, it seems, remembered fondly by guests at my weddings. Perhaps it’s because hate organising groups of strangers who typically go all stiff in front of “the bossy photographer”. Instead I enlist the help of all the amateurs there. After all, we’re all wanting the same thing - great photos. So why make 40-100 enemies when I can have 40-100 assistants who know the rest of the wedding party, and who will organise lovely laughing, smiling, relaxed groups of people. People love the photos too, and will marvel at the quality (mostly composition) of mine compared with theirs. They buy more that way too, and are happy to buy. And I never, ever, rip people off on print prices.
Kind regards,
Jon Silver
Silver Weddings
i think it’s okay to expect others not to photograph during the posed pictures, but again, the photographer should say something to people instead of inwardly fuming. i think most guests are herded off to the cocktail hour or reception for that to happen. i would imagine that photographers expect other guests to take photos, and that it’s only a problem when the guest gets in the way of their camera or refuses to budge when the photographer would like to get a shot.
[...] Picture Taking, Stopping the Baby Train by Miss Kiwi [...]
Mrs. Kiwi, Los Angeles
Age and Occupation in 06: 27, Bookkeeper
Fiance's Age and Occupation: 27, P.E. Teach/Coach @ private schools in LA
Engagement Date: March 31, 2006
Wedding Date: November 3, 2007
Venue: Radisson Hotel
About Me: I'm a bookkeeper who failed high school algebra. I'm currently living in Los Angeles, literally a street over from where I grew up with Mr. Kiwi, my honey of three years. We have a jumbo mini-dachshund (seriously, he's huuuuge), and we're planning an autumn themed wedding on a shoestring, paid for by ourselves. The wedding date is my late grandma's birthday, I needed her there somehow, and that seemed like the best way for us. I can't believe I'm a Bee! I couldn't be more proud!
How stupid, i mean seriously telling people not to bring a camera. That photog obv is not very good at their job. Also, what about how at every wedding i have been too they have disposable’s on the tables!!?? I agree about the church, but i have also seen many a “pro” photog disrupt the service with the flashing and running up and dopwn the aisle.