Wedding Blog
Okay, so let me be honest here. I do not consider myself to be a Christian. I was baptized in the Episcopalian Church since my father’s family is Episcopalian, but religion was never very important to my family. I think my parents only baptized me because of pressure from my grandparents. I grew up in a very secular family and it has certainly had an impact on me. When I was younger, I was curious about religion so I went to several different kinds of churches with my friends from school, but nothing ever really made sense to me. I started going to a Unitarian church with my older sister in my early twenties, and it was probably the closest I have ever come to adopting a religion.
Mr. Radish also considers himself to be agnostic, and yet we are having a Catholic wedding. You may wonder why, so I will try my best to explain our reasoning.
Mr. Radish’s parents are devout Catholics and he is the youngest of their six children. My future father-in-law actually attended seminary school for a couple of years before he decided that he wanted to marry Mr. Radish’s mother and become a math professor instead. Mr. Radish is named after a French-Canadian monk (who has been nominated for sainthood) whose heart is preserved in a jar in Quebec City. His parents make a pilgrimage to see this heart in a jar every year. Anyway, I guess my point is that their beliefs are very important to them and they made it known early on in our engagement that they were hoping for, as my future mother-in-law put it, a “holy matrimony.”
Now at first I said absolutely not. It seemed completely ridiculous to have a religious ceremony when neither of us are religious people, and I wanted to have a secular, outdoor ceremony or get married in a Unitarian church, as my sister did. BUT — after some very careful consideration, I changed my mind.
Mr. Radish grew up going to church every single Sunday of his life until he went off to college. Though he considers himself an agnostic, he says that he still sees value in much of the Catholic/Christian tradition and he doesn’t completely disavow it, he just looks at it in another way. Basically, he agrees with many of the messages of Christianity but he just doesn’t believe that Jesus was the son of God or that God necessarily exists in the way that the world’s major monotheistic religions view him. Rather, he believes that Christianity is just one interpretation of the mysteries of life and that no one particular religion is the “true” one, but they are all right in their own ways.
Mr. Radish is a cultural anthropologist, after all, and he was an exchange student in Thailand for a semester with a Buddhist host family, so it’s easy to see how he has come to this all-inclusive way of thinking. I guess it’s the same way I see things, except that I don’t know quite as much about the Bible or other religions as he does.
So, in the end I decided that since Mr. Radish and I have no specific views on religion we would honor his parents’ wishes and have a Catholic ceremony. My family couldn’t care less about what kind of ceremony we had, but it is soooo important to his parents… and he is their baby after all. Sometimes I feel like a bit of a hypocrite, though, and I hope we are making the right decision. I think the way I keep justifying it to myself is by remembering that our wedding is just as much about our families as it is about us, and all we are doing is honoring their tradition.
The one thing that I was absolutely firm on, however, is that we are not having a full Nuptial Mass. I felt like that was going too far, not to mention, since I was not baptized or confirmed in the Catholic church I am not allowed to take communion. And that would be weird for the bride to not fully participate in her own ceremony, right? Not to mention my side of the aisle would have no idea what to do and they would probably be very confused by all of the kneeling and standing.
Anyway, so what are the hive’s thoughts on this… Are we terrible for succumbing to family pressures? Is anyone else having a religious ceremony that they don’t really believe in? Or are there any inter-faith couples out there who are trying to decide which faith to be married in?
|
Share this post: A Holy Matrimony?
This post could not have come at a more appropriate time. Sad to say that my fiance and I are in full-battle mode over what kind of ceremony to have– it’s actually been quite heartbreaking. Well, I guess I thought he and I were in agreement until his parents said that they had to have it a very specific, certain way. My fiance doesn’t know what to do and I know that I don’t want it their way. It’s hard to figure out when to compromise, what to compromise on, and when you’re losing yourself/gaining a family in the process.
It sounds like you guys are really comfortable with your decision and that is awesome. Don’t worry about feeling hypocritical– you did what was best for you and your families and that is all anyone can ask of you.
i think you made the right decision.
you shouldn’t always cave to family pressures but the reasons you listed - the parents’ tradition, FH’s experience, and your not being strongly tied to any one particular religion - points to giving in on this one. i think you especially made the compromise tilt more towards the middle when you put your foot down on the full nuptial mass.
you know, give a little, take a little?
kudos on handling the situation with such class and grace!
I’m in the same situation. My parents are devout Catholics, though I stopped going years ago. He’s Protestant but neither he or his family are religious at all. My parents asked if we could get married in a Catholic Church, and since neither of us really have strong feelings about it, we agreed. In the end, as long as someone is marrying us, that’s all I really care about!
Exact same situation here (minus the heart in a jar or the Buddhist monk, but the rest is pretty eerie…). We had to make the same decision and as my fiance is the first rather than the last, we decided to not go with a Catholic service, but instead with a very inclusive generically Christian ceremony that doesn’t say anything that anyone in our families would disagree with.
Reason being, I just wasn’t comfortable making promises in a Catholic Church that I had no intention of keeping nor believed in. I don’t believe that Jesus was the son of God (my religious background is Jewish/Bahai’i/Unitarian/Transendentalist) and for my fiance’s family it was the whole nuptial mass or nothing in the Catholic church. So nothing it is and we’ll have something that everyone can feel comfortable with. God will be present in our ceremony and so will our values/beliefs as a joint couple.
Ha, this was us. I’m agnostic and FI was raised Catholic, but not so much practicing. Despite the non-practicing, he works at a Catholic school, and we decided to just make it easier and have a Catholic wedding. It’s kind of annoying because I don’t know what I’m saying/doing most of the time, but I am reading up on it, which help tremendously. Good luck!
Neither of our parents are concerned with a religuos ceremony but my grandfather whose memory is starting to go asks everytime it comes up, “Why are’nt you getting married in the Church? Who’s going to marry you?” These questions always make me laugh because while both I and my grandfather were raised catholic and while we attended Church together every sunday of my childhood, he has suddenly changed religions. So why would he care if I’m married in a church and which one does he expect me to marry in? Anyhow, our ceremony will be outdoors and there won’t be any mention of religion at all but I think it’s different for everyone. Both weddings i attended this summer were very religious and both couples were very happy and the ceremonies fit them. I think its important to represent you as a couple and as a family and if his family is intent I think you have made a great decision especially by not holding full mass. Best of luck to you!
I don’t see anything really wrong with it as long as you and your fiance and the officiant marrying you are all fine with it. I have one question though, I have never actually attended a Catholic ceremony but have heard that during this type of ceremony, the bride and groom have to promise that they will raise any children arising from the marriage in the Catholic church - won’t this be a problem for you? I’m just curious how this will be handled in your case.
I understand the pressure and made a different choice than you did. My mother is Anglican but never raised my siblings or I in the church and she regrets it now and wanted to “make up for it” by having me get married at her church. Unfortunately, I am very comfortable in my atheist beliefs and my fiance is not Christian either. We felt very uncomfortable with the idea of getting married in a church and including God in our vows because for us, that would mean we didn’t believe in our own vows in their entirety. Plus I’ve wanted a garden wedding for as long as I can remember and I was not prepared to give that up. My mom is heartbroken but we stuck to our guns on this one. I am sorry that it is disappointing to her, but I think the biggest part of the problem for me is that she wants me to marry in the church to kind of fix her “mistake” in not taking us to church when we were young. I don’t feel like using my wedding to de-guilt my mom of her parenting method, you know? That’s not what it’s about. It’s a choice she made that she needs to make peace with on her own.
Planning our wedding, I learned a lot about the Catholic wedding process…
In your case, there shouldn’t be any debate about mass; I can’t imagine there would be any priest who would insist on a full nuptial mass. The mass weddings are only for when both the groom & bride are Catholic (& current on all their preceding sacraments — first communion, confirmation), for the exact reason you suggest: it would be weird for them to not both participate. Communion is the first act they do together as husband & wife, since it’s right after the vows.
Anyhoo, hope this helps alleviate one concern!
My husband and I were married in a Jewish ceremony by a rabbi. He’s Jewish, although not religious, and I’m also not religious at all, but I was raised Episcopalian. Our only religious parent is my mom, who is quite active in her Episcopalian parish, she is also interested in theology and has taken many classes. At first I figured we’d get a judge, or possibly a priest friend of my mom’s to marry us, but then my husband asked if we could have a Jewish ceremony. His mother passed away from breast cancer this past Thanksgiving, and I know she would have liked her son to be married by a rabbi. So even though she wasn’t able to be there, the ceremony was to honor her. And, once I read up about the Jewish ceremony, I really liked it, I like the symbolism of many of the elements. It was a wonderful ceremony. PS–my mom thought it was great. She did two readings, one from the New Testament, one from the Old.
I’d say you’re a much bigger person than I am! Mr. Blueberry and I are both agnostic atheists (we believe that you can’t really know if any god exists, so we choose not to believe in any –basically) and his parents are very devout Lutherans. They don’t know he’s not a Lutheran, but they didn’t really put up a complaint about our wedding ceremony since they know I’m not religious–they just assumed the reason it was secular was all my doing. But I know they would’ve been much happier if we’d had a full Lutheran ceremony. I couldn’t have gone against my (lack of) beliefs, though. To me, it would have been just as out-of-place if we’d had a Hindu ceremony, or a Jewish one, etc. They’re all fine religions, they’re just not *mine*.
How typical (or atypical) do you think it is for most people today to share the same religious beliefs as their parents? Even though there has been a huge increase in interfaith marriages, I think there has probably also been an increase in marriages where the couple believe the same thing, but which is vastly different from the parents’ beliefs.
My FI is Jewish, and I am Christian. I was actually raised in a very evangelical home, and while I still consider myself Christian, I am definitely not evangelical. My FI’s family is not religious, but mine is. We are getting married on neutral ground, but we are having a minister and a rabbi in order to honor both families and both traditions.
I say what ever you and your fiance decide on is the right thing to do. You two are the ones getting married. Dont worry about seeming hypocritical, it isnt about that, it is about what is right for you two as a couple!
But my one question is have you found a church to marry you in? I was raised Catholic and I am marrying a Jewish man, we are getting married by a Christian Reverend in an outdoor ceremony that will include elements of both Christianity, Catholicism and Judiasm. Anyway, when we first looked into getting married in the Catholic church, there was no way since my FI is jewish and was not going to convert. I never know what the deal with this is - maybe it varies from church to church. In the one that I was raised in, if you were not baptised catholic - you cannot get married in it. Good Luck!
(I’ll start this out by saying that I am a former Roman Catholic–now UU. I don’t believe that Jesus was the son of God either, nor do I believe in the trinity. Also, in general, I do believe that weddings are about more than just the couple.) However, the ceremony itself is the one thing that I think should be about the participants. If marriage is about making an honest, open committment to one another, then shouldn’t it be done in an honest manner? If Mr. Radish’s parents are really that devout, aren’t they concerned that you are having a ceremony that you don’t fully believe in? Do they know that Mr. Radish does not believe that Jesus was the son of God? Which means that Mr. Radish does not believe in Jesus’ divine nature–fully man and fully God. That goes against the most basic tenets of Roman Catholicism. If I were Mr. Radish’s parents, I would be more concerned if my son wanted to have a Catholic ceremony than if he didn’t–in the sense that it is not respectful of other people’s very real beliefs. I mean, it would be like taking communion in a Catholic church if you are not Catholic. I would never take communion at mass anymore, because I don’t believe in transubstantiation. I would at least think that the priest wouldn’t agree to marry two people, neither of whom believe in the most basic tenets of Roman Catholicism. If Mr. Radish’s parents know and accept his religious beliefs, why don’t you sit down and discuss having a ceremony that would respect everyone’s beliefs? May be you could have your UU ceremony with Mr. Radish’s parents’ priest participating in some way? So, I say may be you should reconsider your initial reservations.
P.S. Anyway, just another heads up, because I think a lot of people are surprised and offended when they hear some of the Catholic rules, so better to hear in advance:
For a Catholic wedding where one party is Catholic and the other is not, so far as I’ve learned, the Catholic party has to get “permission” from the church to marry a non-Catholic. (”Disparity of cult” or “permission for mixed marriage” are phrases you might hear.)
I believe the rationale is primarily for full disclosure, as part of the pre-cana process. The wedding format and disclosures can become an issue if, God forbid, there is ever a divorce and Catholic petition for declaration of annulment. So anyway, there is a lot of emphasis on dotting the i’s and cross the t’s in preparing for the marriage and in solemnizing the marriage. I’m sure other religions might have similar rules, or even stricter ones.
Just offering some background because the rules can seem confusing without the big picture.
I think you made the right decision. You don’t really care and his parents really do care so why not? I know we had a hard time too. We couldn’t even find a church that would marry us without converting. Finally, we found a church that we love and a Pastor that we love.
I think you guys are making the right decision to honor FH’s parent’s wishes. My FH and I were raised Catholic, he went to Catholic school his whole life and we are getting married in a Protestant Community Church. The reason is, this is FH’s second marriage and he was already married in a Catholic church and since we are not religious people at all [only go to church for weddings, funerals, etc.] we didn’t care to try and get married in the church anyway. I even told FH that I’d get married at the RH, but he wanted me to walk down a church aisle. The church we are getting married in is gorgeous and marries people of different faiths as long as one person is Christian. Good luck to you! I think you are making a good decision!
Iris —- thanks for the tips and warnings. I forgot to mention in my post that this was something we decided about a year ago, as we are only 2 months from our wedding date now. We have already done Pre Cana and gone through all the necessary paperwork and whatnot.
Mr. Radish’s parents wanted a full mass, and our preist said he would do it if we insisted — but since I, nor my family, is Catholic he strongly advised against it.
I was not asked to make any promises to the church since I am the non-Catholic party (I guess that means my promises aren’t valued?) but Mr. Radish did have to promise that he “would to the best of his ability raise our children as Roman Catholics.”
If I had to make that promise, I don’t think I could’ve gone through with it… but Mr. Radish is used to lying to Priests. I know that sounds awful, but it’s true!!! It doesn’t even phase him anymore. I guess he saw it as a “white lie” and to be honest, the Priest that we had to do our marriage preperation stuff with (out here in Chicago) knows that we are really doing this for his family, so he didn’t even make a big deal of it and he told me right off the bat that he thinks a lot of the churches rules are archane and that he would change them if he could. So, I guess it made me more comfortable with it since he was very understanding.
I have to admit, I do think it is a little hypocritical to get married in a Church that you do not believe in. Further to that, I am very surprised that a Priest would be willing to marry you if neither of you believed in God or the religion? I know that often couples marry in a Place Of Worship if one believes and the other does not - but not when both don’t believe - I have to wonder if you have both been honest with the Priest about what you believe in and what you do not believe in.
Anyhoo…just my two cents 
Ok - Miss Radish, I just read your last comment…I do think it sounds terrible that your fiancé would lie to a Priest (whether or not he thinks it is just a “white lie”) Personally, I wouldn’t want to have to lie to get married somewhere…I think you guys should seriously reconsider… why would you both sacrifice what you believe in (or not believe in) - honestly, what type of hold could his parents possibly have on you to cause you to do this???
JMHO!
I agree with Kat, but only for myself. 
In other words, I refuse to get married in the Catholic Church. But its because I actively decided to be Catholic AND actively decided not to be based on where it looks to me that the Church is going.
(In my experience this is different from most people who aren’t religious as adults - like my siblings - who did all the church things in their childhood without thinking about it, and then went off on their own and stopped thinking about it to the point of not longer going to church. Does that make sense?)
So for me, getting married at a Catholic Church would be a slap in the face at my choices. And I would really be uncomfortable. But my siblings and my fi would all be willing to get married in the Catholic Church because they never were too serious about it, so the “lying” isn’t a big deal, its just one more sacrament that they are in line for and they are saying what they are told to. And I wouldn’t judge them for that anymore then I judged them when getting confirmed.
However, my grandparents and his parents are very upset by this. (GPs tried to bride me into a Catholic ceremony!) My parents are more upset about me not being Catholic anymore…their priorities being a little more in line, in my opinion.
just to respond kat’s objection, as a fellow catholic/unitarian, i disagree. i’m in a similar situation as miss radish. i would never disrespect the church by taking communion but i am will to go through a ritual that means a great deal to both of our families. the basic things that you promise transcend specific beliefs (which is why marriage is a ritual found in some form in all religions).
as for those who point out the requirement to raise children catholic, i think that it makes sense for me to expose my children to the religion that both our families have practiced for generations. i would never force them into the religion any more than my own parents did.
I commend you for being the bigger person in this situation. It’s not very often you find someone who is flexible about about marrying in a church practicing a religion that the person doesn’t believe in.
I’ve been nervous about what’s to come for me. I’m not engaged yet, but my SO is not religious (maybe with a bit of a buddhist background) and I was raised in a Catholic family (my dad’s side), even though I’m not that religious either. I don’t know if I’ll feel pressures from my family to eventually marry in a church. Plus, I, too, always though both parties had to be Catholic in order to marry in a Catholic church, and that you’d have to raise your kids to be Catholic (I know for sure my SO wouldn’t want to agree to that). After reading everyone’s comments though, seems like it won’t be that big of a deal….Hopefully it’ll turn out to be easier that I expect it to be!
I don’t think you’re horrible for caving to family pressures, but I do think that the marriage ceremony should be significant for the participants. I’m doing a totally non-religious one because my FI is from Taiwan and has absolutely no grounding in Western religions whatsoever. They freak him out a little. I was raised Catholic (semi-practicing now, but it’s not a huge part of my life), and if it had been really important to me, he would have gotten married in the church. However, i didn’t want him to make marriage vows in the worship space of a God he doesn’t believe in and in a tradition that doesn’t offer him any comfort. So that was our reasoning. My grandmother was a little upset at first, but when I explained myself she understood. I think the most important thing is just to make sure that the cermony is a meaningful experience for the both of you, and as long as you’re true to that, you’re not a hypocrite. If you can find it within the structure of a Catholic ceremony, then go for it!
RE: not having a full mass, while I don’t have an issue with it and I don’t think most churches have a problem with it now, this is something your future in-laws might point out: A Catholic mass by definition is a celebration of the Eucharist. Without doing communion, it’s not *really* a mass. I think you’re absolutely right that the ceremony should be inclusive of you and as many of your guests as possible, but your future in-laws sound a little on the hard core side You might want to think of an answer for that, should they throw it at you. Good luck with everything!
Miss Radish: Thanks for the additional info.
(I don’t think it’s that your promises aren’t valued; it’s just that the church has no right/reason to exercise authority over someone who isn’t a member, or ask a non-member to adhere to its tenets.)
HamiHarri — I appreciate your opinon on the matter. I guess that was my whole concern with this.
Since I am not the Catholic party in the marriage, the church really doesn’t care what I believe. I could be a member of any other religion and it wouldn’t make a difference to them because it’s still not Catholic.
So… no priest has ever asked me what I believe because they don’t care, because they know I don’t beleive in the Catholic version. They did ask if I was interested in converting and I told them that I wasn’t. On the questionaire that the priest filled out, I think there was a question about me not standing in the way of Mr. Radish practicing his faith, but there was no expectation that I would practice with him. That was about as much as he ever spoke to me about what I believe.
Now as for Mr. Radish… I don’t think they ever really asked him either. I suppose there is just an understanding/expectation that he believes in the Catholic faith because he was confirmed in the church. Now, granted, he never volunteered to tell the priest that he isn’t really a believer… but that was his choice to make.
His parents are in their mid 70s, and they might not be around much longer so I think he just wants to please them. His mother is a very, very sweet woman, and some of her other children had non-Catholic weddings and she still goes to confession for it. As silly as it may seem to some, she sees it as a failure of her parenting. AND she really believes that her children will go to hell for not being Catholic, which breaks her heart.
I guess telling a few lies that don’t really matter to him is a fair price to pay for his mother’s peace of mind. If they were younger I might think it was worth trying to explain to them what we really believe in, but they are very set in their ways so I don’t see the point of upsetting them.
Whoa — sorry this comment is so long
I am agnostic/atheist (depends on who I’m talking to in how they would react - sadly, here in the South, it’s an issue) and FI is a non-practicing Catholic. His family belongs to the nicest church in the area we grew up in and it would be fabulous for the wedding of our dreams, but it just wasn’t us. He didn’t want to go through all the pre-cana “BS” and didn’t want me to have to sit through it either. We are not getting married in any church and likely will have a purely civil ceremony. Since we no longer live in that area, it’s not as big of a deal.
Our drama is that his family knows that it won’t be in a church, but they don’t know that it will not be religious. I don’t think his family knows that I’m atheist, but they know I’m not a religious person. They’ve never asked, so I’ve never bothered to tell them. It’ll be interesting to see if one them gripes about the ceremony.
You are a far better person than I to go through with a Catholic ceremony when neither of you fully believes in it’s teachings. I know we’d be in the same situation if we still lived near his family’s church. I doubt that I could do it.
This is such a personal decision, and I respect yours. That said, I just think it’s actually more disrespectful to “fake it,” it is not what I would have decided. We got a decent amount of pressure from FI’s parents to be married in a church - but the church has no place in our lives, and to do so would have been a lie and a bad way for us to start our lives together.
But I’m sure it is pleasing your fiance’s parents immensely - so you’re obviously a lot more thoughtful than I am. Good luck!
Miss Radish, thank you for sharing that background - it has made me understand and appreciate what you and your fiancé are doing a little more. Ugh! It frustrates me though that people (not just your Future-In-Laws but society in general) cannot understand that people believe in so many different things, and that the only thing that truly matters is that we are good people and try to do go things in life…
All the best!
While I can understand the personal reasons behind this decision (per the post and a follow-up comment), I’m saddened that your husband feels it appropriate to disrespect a faith community in this way. Taking marriage vows in a Catholic church will be, for both of you, participating in a sacramental union. He is continuing in his faith by participating in the sacrament, and by extension, affirming the very beliefs he no longer espouses. While it may seem trivial to you (in the sense that this is some “show” you put on for his family), it is deeply saddening and troubling to me, a devout Catholic who has waited for 3 years for an annulment to be granted to my fiance so that we can be married in the Church I love. I am not bitter about that wait; we chose it because our faith is important to me and to my fiance, and neither of us could consider marrying outside the Church and the sacrament. I rejoice now, as our families do, because we can move forward freely into this union and do so in the fullness of our faith.
It has always troubled me to read of people marrying in a particular faith tradition to appease other parties. I do not speak here of a bride/groom where one partner chooses to marry in the church where another actively practices. Rather, I point to situations like this one, where the church ceremony is looked upon solely as a means of placating parents. How can anyone stand in a place of worship and support beliefs they do not share unless their own beliefs are not firm?
We can never really know what is in one’s heart, but when you share these kinds of decisions in a public forum, please understand that you are opening your heart to public view and that some of us may feel pain in seeing it. I wish you the best in your marriage and your future life together.
Oh gosh, I’m another person who can totally relate. Both my fiance and I are Catholic but not practicing and my dad is insisting that we get married in the church. We didn’t originally want to but are now giving in, especially since he will be helping us with the cost of the wedding. I figure it’s not for me, it’s for my dad. It still doesn’t really sit well with me (I feel hypocritical) but it’s something that means a lot to my dad.
Some possible insight: Some Catholics feel strongly that it’s wrong to participate in the non-Catholic wedding of a Catholic person because it shows support or a “blessing” of going outside church protocol. Others feel it’s wrong to even attend. So that could be part of it?
Anita: I empathize! I confess that crossed my mind that it’s somewhat less meaningful and possibly wrong to have a religious wedding with less-than-sincere personal motivations. But on the other hand, I feel that there can still be a lot derived from experiencing a religious Catholic wedding ceremony. I was so deeply moved by our ceremony, and if any couple can feel even a fraction of that, I sincerely wish it for them and hope that it might re-open the door for a new family to experience at least a taste of the good the Church can offer, starting with non-judgmental hospitality to welcome the new couple.
I feel sorry for Mr. Radish’s mom if that is how she feels; it sounds like she really agonizes over it, but it also sounds like she is very special! I really envy people who have that kind of faith. I usually think that it must be very comforting to have faith, but this highlights that it is also hard! I think in your circumstances I probably would have done the same thing.
This is all very upsetting to me. I am a Catholic, and to hear people call Pre-Cana “BS” and make general misconceptions about my religion are incredibly confusing and upsetting. Please be sensitive of other people and their beliefs.
Wow… there sure are a lot of comments on this post. I want to sincerely thank everyone for sharing their thoughts on this subject with me. It’s something that I’ve been thinking about a lot and I’m sure I’m not the only one.
One important thing to note, is that Mr. Radish still considers himself Catholic in some ways. He was raised in the faith, and there are many parts of it that are still important to him. Also, he sees it as part of his French-Canadian heritage.
Since we are not having a Nuptial Mass, I don’t think we are really taking any specifically Catholic vows. The priest referred to it as an “ceremony outside of mass” and it is only going to be about 30 minutes long… so I’m not sure if there are really any “sacraments” that we are violating. I think the vows are just the standard vows that almost any church uses. I could be wrong about this, though. We are meeting with the priest who is performing our ceremony next week so I will find out more details about our ceremony then.
I agree that it is disrespectful to a religion to take vows or participate in sacraments that I don’t believe in. That is why, despite my future mother-in-laws wishes, we are not having a Nuptial Mass. But maybe we are still being disrespectful to some belieivers. I guess that’s the hard part for us.
Again, his parents are in their 70s and they are not in the best health. I guess I just don’t want to give them anything to feel bad about this late in their lives. His mom really took it hard when one of Mr. Radishes sisters had a Lutheran wedding and she still prays for her soul all the time and views it as a failure of her own faith and parenting skills.
Anyway, I know that may be no excuse to some, but Mr. Radish loves his mother deeply and this is really important to her. He won’t admit it, but he is afraid that his parents aren’t going to live much longer (which is so hard for him because he is not even 30 yet) and I think he does just want them to be at peace and not worry about if any of their children will not go to heaven.
There is also a considerable amount of pressure placed on Mr. Radish since he is the youngest child. I think his parents know that they might not live much longer (his father already had a heart attack) and they worry the most about Mr. Radish because he is still young and they may be leaving him parentless at a relatively young age. I think they just want to make sure they see him on the “right path” before they go.
This is all really just about his love for his parents I guess. It’s hard for me to understand fully because my parent’s are so different from his. But I’m doing my best to be supportive.
(Again, sorry this followup comment is SO long)
Miss Radish, I think your motives are pure, and you are doing this out of love and respect for your FI and his family. Just remember that it is impossible to please everyone (especially us readers), so as long as you are at peace with your decision, don’t worry about what other people think. All the best to you.
Hey Iris!!you are like a pro on this subject!!
I’m sure Miss Raddish thought about this long and hard before they both made a decision…
I’m catholic(my h2b is anglican and we’re having a catholic ceremony, no questions there!!) and I dont know that I get really upset by all that I’m reading, what is more wrong is that miss raddish and fiance have been placed in a situation where they had to make this choice…having said that and being african(Nigerian), I realize that marriage is a celebration of not just the couple’s love but the uniting of families and a community, hence the need to sometimes yield ground to one’s parents on issues dear to their hearts…
This is a tough one to call… but i really believe the most important thing and what God will ultimately judge is the beauty and quality of the marriage throughout the years…
Thank you Miss Radish for your thoughtful response. I know that this is difficult for you both, and that the motivating factor here is love. I am blessed to not have to make this decision (although I have my own difficult choices to make–such is wedding planning!), and I know that you and your fiance are trying to make the best of a less-than-ideal situation.
On the issue of sacrament: if you are marrying in a Catholic church before a Catholic priest using the Catholic marriage ceremony, then I’m fairly certain that you are participating in a sacrament whether or not there is a full mass. Babies baptized at private baptism ceremonies outside mass are no less baptized, and I think the same goes for marriages. If this is of concern to either of you, you may want to ask the priest at your meeting, but be warned: it may bring up issues you’d rather not discuss with him regarding your (particularly your fiance’s) beliefs.
Again, I wish you two nothing but the best.
Miss R: Don’t worry too much about violating a sacrament. Communion is a sacrament, but so is marriage. One of the beautiful Catholic theological concepts is that the ministers of the sacrament are the bride and groom, because through their mutual sincere vows they administer the sacrament to each other. The priest is there as a witness and to offer a blessing, not to make you married in the spiritual sense (though the priest has a role in making it official for the state).
I don’t know if our church is more liberal than others, but we were told that although I am not Catholic I can officially be married in the church. The priest said that had it been earlier times, we would have had to get married in the rectory, since it was a “mixed marriage”. In my post about meeting with the father, I touch on that a bit, but they gave me a book (Looked like a kid’s coloring book) called “Now you’re marrying a catholic”.
Some things in the church have changed, it seems. Then again, perhaps only in our parish?
Miss Radish,
As everyone has said, your decision is a personal one. Your followup posts show very clearly that you have personal, well-considered reasons for doing this, and have answers to everyone’s criticisms. No matter how much explaining you do, I am sure the criticisms will continue, but at the end of the day, your decision is not a hasty or capricious one (”because the church is really really pretty!”), it’s to honor people you respect in a way that is meaningful.
People have gotten married in certain churches for many other reasons than than a firm commitment to their religion- including family, convenience, or because the church is pretty. Everyone has their reasons, and as long as they are not hurting anyone, they are entitled to them. Of all the reasons, I think yours are as unselfish and compassionate as they come.
No offense to anyone, but often the real point of religion gets bogged down in all of their rules. Rules or not, your marriage in this church represent a commitment between you and your husband-to-be, a promise to love each other and respect each other and your families. I don’t think that is disrespectful of any religion. To the extent that “arcane rules”, as the priest described them, interfere with that legitimate purpose, you’re not being disrespectful, especially considering that you are hardly being deceitful about any of this, other than your fiance making a forced representation when it was called for.
I think your sacrifice shows you honor your fiance’s parents and your fiance, and that you are willing to make compromises at the core of your life for him. How is that for a meaningful vow?! In addition, you are saving his mother grief you know she would otherwise carry with her, whether reasonable or not. These are the kinds of deeds that good people do, and for what it’s worth, I think it makes your marriage a holy one.
When my grandparents eloped in the late 1930s, they came back the next day and all the parents were sitting on the front porch waiting for them. My grandfathers’ parents (the Catholic side) said that they were not really married until they got married in the Church. So, my grandparents always had two different anniversarys. My grandfather considered it to be the church wedding and my grandmother the first one. When my parents to married in the Catholic church (pre-Vatican II); my mom had to convert–she wasn’t Catholic. Well, I’m not sure if she HAD to convert, but she did because that is just what was expected back then, and they were getting married with a Mass. She did one-on-one catechism lessons with the priest and everything. Later that priest ran away with a divorced woman, left the priesthood and got married! Shocking, but my mom used to joke that he was so handsome, she wished she had known that he would consider leaving the priesthood! I’ve seen picture, he was a hunk!
I’m agnostic so my opinion may not weigh as heavily for this topic, but here’s my two cents. Though agnostic, I share the values that are stressed in most religions: love, concern for your fellow man (or woman), selflessness, etc. What you are doing is not only selfless, it’s showing love and concern for the happiness of someone important in your lives. And it’s not like you are doing something that is harmful to others…….bottom line, don’t overthink it, you made the right decision.
Miss Kiwi: I know what you’re talking about! The b&w line drawings of people that look like Japanese anime, with the big oval eyes?
I’m a religious Catholic, and I think you’re making a lovely and generous gesture to your in laws to be.
Hi Miss Radish!
While I am not Catholic, I am Christian (and consider it a big part of my life), and I personally would not be offended to see someone who is not Christian participate in a Christian ceremony to please their in-laws. I think it’s a beautiful picture of you really making an effort to meet their needs, and I think they will definitely appreciate it, even though it may not be part of your personal beliefs.
Cultural differences also bring up similar situations, though I admit religion seems to be a little touchier than that. For our ceremony, we incorporated a few things I was not super comfortable with, due to Mr. P’s culture, but I went through with those expected little extras because I knew they showed respect to his parents.
I think you are def. doing the right thing, taking into account your position in the matter, and I think only good will come out of it!
I admire you for being so open on this subject and responding with such grace to those who might be opposed to your views. I also think you’ve made the right decision, bearing in mind all the different opinions surrounding this subject. It wasn’t your intention to violate any sacraments and I can see that you and your fiance just want to give his parents happiness and peace of mind. I’m agnostic, so religion is always a bit of a touchy subject for me…but I think honestly, it all comes down to the love you have for each other and your family. Best of luck!
[...] it was decided that we would have a Catholic wedding ceremony, the next step was to find a church that would marry [...]
I would like to answer as a Wedding Minister-Officiant’s point of view. The entire final decision, in my humble opinion, should be a joint effort of the Bride & Groom. I find this dilemma is far from rare, but once I speak with all parties concerned, (through email or telephone) they are usually happy with my suggestions, and everyone can move towards the rest of the planning of the wedding. My suggestions are this:
Since 99% of my Brides and Grooms believe in “God” in some fashion, they unsually do not hesitate to use the word “God” in three sections of the ceremony…#1 is the opening welcome (i.e., …and in the presence of God, family and friends) #2. A blessing of the rings (i.e. God, please bless these rings, etc.) #3. the pronouncement of Husband and wife (i.e.,…in the presence of God, family and friends, I now prounounce you areHusband and Wife.” I also suggest that we can include one tradition that represents one religion, i.e., breaking of the glass for Judaism…and one tradition that represents the other’ religion., i.e., Unity Candle Ceremony for Catholic and Christian. Any ethnic tradition can be used for any ceremony. I have performed hundreds of ceremonies and hope this information helps at least a little bit to ease tensions…definitely a time for “happy” - not “tension”.
Just a big thank you for posting this… These are concerns I have thought over a thousand times but have had a difficult time articulating. You are inspiring me to be honest with myself and still respect my religious upbringing!
| Visit our sister sites | Project Wedding Wedding Songs |
eHarmony Advice Dating Advice |
JustMommies Pregnancy Calendar |
Fertile Thoughts Infertility Support |
Mrs. Radish, Chicago/Syracuse
Age and Occupation: 27, Executive Assistant/Journalism Student/Musician
Fiance's Age and Occupation: 28, Anthropologist/Musician
Engagement Date: December 20, 2005
Wedding Date: August 18, 2007
Blogging Since: June 26, 2007
Venue: The Wellington House in Fayetteville, NY
About Me: Mr. Radish and I are both from upstate New York, so we are planning a wedding in Syracuse from about 700 miles away. When I’m not obsessing about our wedding I play the cello in my band (which Mr. Radish is in too), read as much as I can, sleep even more, travel whenever possible, and try to find time to have fun with my friends. I’m also working on finishing up my journalism degree with a concentration in environmental reporting and I’m the VP of my campus Amnesty International chapter… so I’m a pretty busy bee.
| Sun | Mon | Tue | Wed | Thu | Fri | Sat |
|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
| 1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | 5 | 6 | 7 |
| 8 | 9 | 10 | 11 | 12 | 13 | 14 |
| 15 | 16 | 17 | 18 | 19 | 20 | 21 |
| 22 | 23 | 24 | 25 | 26 | 27 | 28 |
| 29 | 30 |
Latest Gallery Pics