As I mentioned in my previous entry, as much as I wish it were not the case, money is a concern for us as we plan our big day.
From the minute we got engaged, I was told by my parents that they would not be contributing financially in any way to help us pay for our big day. My mother thinks that long engagements are ridiculous and both my parents feel that it is a big waste of money on what “essentially boils down to a big party.” This reaction did not surprise me since I have always known my parents to have very set ideas about money, especially due to the three years of financial hardship we faced when my father was unexpectedly laid off from his job. When he became re-employed, he not only ended up having to take a pay cut (his senior management salary was considered too much) but we ended up moving into a smaller house and a precedent was set – every man for himself.
From the time I was 18, I was seen as an adult in the eyes of my parents and left to my own devices when it came to cash. When I wanted to go to school, I was left to pay for it myself and since I moved out three years ago, I have received no financial support, so I really never imagined that they would give me any cash for something as “fluffy” as a wedding. That said, it does make things a little more difficult in that, not only do I have to deal with the monthly costs of living in a major urban centre, but I also have to simultaneously squirrel away money for the wedding myself. I can’t be angry, I mean I get it, especially with retirement on the horizon for them, but I’d be lying if I said I wasn’t at least a little nervous about the upcoming months.
While Mr. Hummingbird and I have similar thoughts about money, because his family is generally better off than mine, he was raised with a slightly different attitude. Though he won’t go out and spend, spend, spend, he has always had a bit of a safety net in his father who, if the going gets tough, will write him a cheque to bail him out, something that in my eyes, is a bit of a luxury.
Which is where our problem lies.
Recently, after a discussion about our financial situation, we touched upon the idea of moving out of the apartment we have lived in for two years. While the rent is very reasonable (at least $200 less than most one bedroom apartments in the city we reside in), there are also a number of reasons to move. It is not close to my work so I rack up $100 worth of transit fees every month (Mr. Hummingbird works from home), it is not close to any of our friends and affects our social life in that we can never stay out late, we live in a slightly undesirable neighbourhood which sometimes brings about safety concerns and honestly, after dealing with all of its little bugaboos for the past 24 months, I’m just kind of sick of it. I mean a girl can only get stand the water running out so many times while she’s showering, you know?
Anyway, after days of talking, we decided that it would probably make sense to find a place we like and to just do it and get the cost out of the way so we could be settled and then jump into the wedding planning because, at least that way, we wouldn’t get stuck dealing with first and last and the catering deposit at the same time.
Now I figured, with Mr. Hummingbird’s pay from the game company and my meager publishing salary, we could afford a place for X number of dollars. It wouldn’t be a palace, but it also wouldn’t be as dumpy as the place we currently reside, and we would still be able to put aside a few hundred a month for the wedding. When we originally went over this idea, everything seemed great and then it happened. We saw an apartment in the building of our dreams. The building that, since we came to Toronto, we have loved from afar, loved from up close and secretly referred to as our building. We both couldn’t help it. We drooled. It was so gorgeous. Before we knew it, we were picturing ourselves living in the building, furnishing the spacious apartment and frolicking in the nearby park on weekends. It was bad.
However, I knew it was cutting it a bit too close. As someone still working on contract, I know my job isn’t hugely secure and if God forbid something were to happen and I ended up being out of work, the nest egg that I have currently put aside for all wedding expenses would be depleted in less than three months.
I told this to Mr. Hummingbird. He snorted. “Why are you so worried?” He asked me, “We can always get my dad to help with expenses.”
I nearly died.
Though I’ve always been of the mind that whatever financial aid Mr. Hummingbird’s family chose to give him was none of my business, the idea of suddenly intimately being involved in the transaction was never something I intended. Mr. Hummingbird’s rationale is that we will all be family soon and that the money that exchanges hands between family doesn’t matter, but I cannot help but feel wildly uncomfortable at the idea of asking for what I consider to be a handout, especially when we can no doubt get an acceptable apartment under our current budget. It would just bother me too much.
I always knew that when I married someone that there would be a certain amount of reconcilation that would need to happen between our lives because, unless for some bizarre reason you were raised in the same house as your significant other (a la Marcia and Greg Brady), everyone’s circumstances growing up are different. You grow up thinking that things should be a certain way and then, with the addition of a partner to your life, you have to learn to adapt and compromise to strike a happy balance. Logically, I know this. But I cannot help thinking that depending on someone else’s family for funds, even if it’s just a short term situation is highly illogical.
So ladies, how ’bout it? How did you and your man deal with the great monetary debate once you started to merge your lives? Do you still go halves on everything or is it all one big pot of cash? Would you accept currency from your significant others’ family? Yeah or nah?
way too many people marry because of the lure of the cash that will come with it (or with the divorce). it’s pretty common hollywood/ soap opera material; “movin on up” if you will. that is not cool. but if you are getting married for the right reasons (love) & truly plan on staying together forever, and the gift of cash is really a gift and not going to be held against you later, I think it is okay to accept. it is also great to be self-supporting and rent is an ongoing expense I personally would rather not be relying on an in-law for. what if you guys pay your rent at the fabulous new pad yourself and accept the in-laws gift to use towards your wedding instead? good luck, and thanks for posting about it. it’s a very personal & tricky matter.
Wow, that’s a tough one. While my husband’s and my parents each did contribute to our wedding (about the same amount from each set of parents, as it turns out), there is no way, ever, absolutely ever, that either of us would feel comfortable asking either for help with something like rent. We didn’t grow up in the same house, but we did grow up with remarkably similar household attitudes about money–basically, if YOU want something, YOU save for it. I think the two of you need to talk about this now, because your FI seems really comfortable with always going back to his dad for a handout and that doesn’t seem like something you’d ever want. I think it would be easier for him to respect your values than for you to accept money that makes you feel dirty, but maybe that’s because my views are very much in line with yours!
Boy, I feel your pain. I would feel weird too.
Then again, I don’t at all think it’s improper for parents to give their kids cash wedding presents. Or for parents to pay for entire weddings. Why is that?
I guess it’s all mentality. It’s somehow more acceptable to take thousands of dollars to pay for a wedding than to take even a hundred a month for rent. I’m not saying it’s right to do either, just that a lot of people do one without hesitating when they would feel funny about the other.
I see both yours and your fiance’s points, you just have to decide how mucy you love your dream home! If you decide that you can scrape together to afford it, with the idea in the back of your head that you have a family who loves you enough to act as a safety net if something bad comes along, go for it! Your in-laws love you both and would love to see you start your life in a gorgeous place, I’m sure.
Personally I wouldn’t take money that I used for ongoing living expenses from my relatives (regardless of the side of the family) unless it were an emergency or I was truly destitute. However, if my fiance’s dad offered a one-time lump sum to help with wedding or moving expenses, I’d take it. Weird, I know, but I guess psychologically, I would treat them differently.
I feel your pain too. Both sets of parents are not contributing to our wedding, so like yourselves, we are paying for it. At first, the money situation stressed me out big time, leading to somewhat of a mild breakdown. But anyhow, my fiance and I have lived together for about 2 1/2 years now, and went from living in a nice, safe, neighborhood, to a not so nice, and as you say “bugaboos” roaming around, just to save money on rent and help pay for the wedding. I’ve gone through extremes though, in the beginning, I was like forget the big wedding, lets get married in Vegas, to the court house, to Hawaii, and because he wanted it more, right here in Orange County. I worry constantly about the money situation, and hope it works out well. I would love to just buy a house and have a very small wedding or even a wedding at the courthouse, then later have a bigger wedding, but he wants the big one now (Big meaning 125 people). But right now, I get by by believing, God will work things out for us, because he always does.
I think it’s fine for your fiance’s dad to offer money if he wants to. I think the problem lies perhaps in that your fiance thinks he can always just ask dad for money if he runs out – at least, if I were in your shoes, that would be the part that would bother me. That way his dad is not offering of his own accord, but your fiance would be flat out asking for a handout.
In my opinion, this is not really the way adults handle their money, this is how teens and college kids in their early 20′s handle their money. As a married couple, you will have an adult relationship and will be old enough not to be relying on your parents anymore for money to keep you afloat.
If it were me, I would plan my budget around money the two of you can count on from your own incomes and sources. Any money his dad offers you might become a nice bonus surprise, but probably not something you should count on for budgeting purposes. If you can’t afford your dream home on your own, then you can’t afford it. After all, what would you do if for some reason your fiance’s father stopped being willing or able to contribute? All of a sudden, your place of residence would be in serious jeopardy because you couldn’t afford the payments. It’s very risky to rely on others to help you in this manner.
Just my two cents. I hope it doesn’t sound judgmental of your fiance as I’m sure he’s a great guy, but I do think relying on financial help from his family is inadvisable.
I feel for you.
I come from a family like your FI’s and I always know that I am safe.
My husband however was also left to his own devices. Honestly- and I hope you take this the right way- you should learn to accept help from his family (when you need it) and be prepared to help when other’s are in need. For my family- that is how we have been able to maintain are strength as a unit.
Well- I’ll try to be succinct because your recent posts strike close to home! Thank you for the wonderful posts!
We decided to postpone the wedding by 9 months so we could buy a home. We got tired of having our standard of living compromised for one day of fun. Cold ass apartment, drunken cubbies fans serenading us to sleep, oh and the occasional furry critter. No thank you.
We are having a much smaller wedding, less costly of course, but it will be just as meaningful and wonderful if it were a 250 person black tie affair. Once I let go, so much stress that I put on myself just melted away. I never felt so free:)
We came to a compromise: we have no compunction taking money when given to us. If we were destitute we would ask. But we don’t expect- our parent’s money is their own, they worked hard for it, and I would love to see them retire soon so they can enjoy the fruits of their labour. Thus anything they give us is a true gift; we don’t feel entitled to it.
Part of this sounds a lot like us before our wedding. We were living in an apartment in a bad (but once good) neighborhood with questionable neighbors. It got to the point where we dreaded going home after work. I was on contract at the time as well, and it wasn’t very encouraging to know that I had to wait until four to five days after the fiscal year to find out if I was still employed. And I know what you mean about finding the right place. We found ours (the one that was a year ago) the day after we got back from our honeymoon. From that point on, going back to our little apartment got even worse.
I also grew up with “every man for themselves”. It sounds a lot worse that it was, but yeah I was an “adult” when I got my first job and was considered a roomate when I got my car. They lovingly took care of me until they felt I was ready to assume the responsiblity myself. Maybe that’s right, maybe not, but since I grew up with it, it makes sense to me. It also makes me very independant.
My guy’s family on the other hand helped each other out to the nth degree. When I met him, he had a loan from his grandpa that was getting paid off “whenever”. His brother (boy let’s just air out all the laundry shall we?) also had family loans. Fortunately, my guy left for college in a different state and when he got back, settled his debts and was determined to never have to loan from family again. It also helped that another family member left a bad taste in his mouth for the whole idea of giving family money like that.
So yeah, we paid for the wedding mostly ourselves. There were some gifts in there that made it possible for us to have nicer things that we could have ever dreamed of (suite the first night, limo, hair and makeup), but I can’t say that anyone ever just gave us a cash endorsement. That would have been great as long as it was a no-strings attached sort of thing, but I wouldn’t say it’s a good thing to expect or rely on it.
Well just a warning…but in my case:
Sometimes money given out by family isn’t necessarily free…sometimes there are secret lingering strings attached that pop up such as…comments about how you’re spending your money or feelings of obligation or worst yet leverage over the other parents “we helped you out so why aren’t we the ones you’re spending this holiday with?”
okay, marcia and greg got married?!
We just had to borrow money from hubby’s parents for car repairs, and it is not a good feeling. While both sets of parents are understanding and supportive, we’ve only been married for two months, and this is uncomfy territory. I think you should listen to your gut because self-sufficiency sounds high on your list, and rightly so. I also agree with Vi–so many complications can arise out of loans and hand-outs alike.
i love the way you tell stories miss hummingbird! 
i thought i’d throw my two cents into the topic. how someone deals with money is also often very cultural. for instance in many cultures, money within the family unit is seen as communal. if i needed money and my parents were in a position to help out, i would have no problem accepting it, and it would work the same way the other way around as well.
i totally respect and admire your independence, and understand your dilemma. i’m biased, but if mr. h’s father is in a position to help out (in case something does go wrong), i’d consider it. maybe you’ll be in a position to return that favor a couple years down the line.
I too, was brought up like Mrs Bee in that money in our family was seen as communal. My parents were willing to bail out my sister and I when we needed money, and now that I’m working, I send money to my sister every month (she’s still a student) so that they don’t have to worry about her. And, I know that years down the road, I will most likely be supporting my parents just as they supported me when I was younger.
In your case, as smartl said, I think the bigger problem is that Mr H is sees his father as a financial crutch if money ever runs out. I think that accepting money for certain gifts/expenditures is ok, but continually relying on someone else is bad.
So if I were in your shoes, I would budget your money just based on you and Mr H’s incomes, but don’t be afraid to accept money from Mr H’s father if you ever need the money. Good luck!
After my FI and I had been living together for a while, I got really sick-and had no insurance at the time. We ended up taking a lot of money from my parents that year, because even with aid, it was pretty hard. I was just glad that they had it to spare. i feel a little funny about it, because of my age, but the circumstances were really unusual.
We just budget from our income-I don’t want to count on it, because circumstances change. it’s very difficult. His parents have the attitude that we paid for college etc, time for you to be on your own-although they are paying for the RD and some other things, which they did not need to do-but his mom said after paying for his sisters’ weddings, it’s nice to just be the MOG.
My fiance’s mother gave us one very large lump sum for our wedding and our down payment. I was worried originally because my mom wanted to give me the wedding of my dreams, was willing to dip into their meager retirement fund for it. And I was never the kind of person who had even ever dreamed of being married.
So it was a very pleasant shock. I know this means I can’t have the $10,000 intimate 60person wedding that I wanted and that his mom will have carte blanche to invite whomever she wants, people who we don’t know, etc. And I do feel like I will owe them. But I think it is worth it to take it and to thank them, very very profusely.
We had a unique situation. First, my dad bought my dress ($1500) and paid for a bit of the flowers (which were DIY the day before the wedding and I was crying because we were just out of cash at that point). But that’s it. Everything else was at our own expense.
We only planned our wedding in 5 months, with really no time to save up. DH supported me with the basics at that point (groceries, clothes if needed, and my rent was free in the girl’s intern house I was living in at the time). And my meager paychecks slowly bought pieces of the wedding, all DIY.
Our money now is shared, but in specific ways. We still have our paychecks direct-deposited into our own checking account, each with a link to our joint account for transferring money around. He gets to fulfill his God-given desire to provide for our family as his paycheck pays the rent and bills. I typically buy food, as I’m the one who does the grocery shopping, and everything else is paid for by whoever happens to have money at the time.
If we were in a crisis, his family or mine would surely help out. But that is what family is about. Your family is still your family once you’re an adult, and it’s not a bad thing to accept help when needed, only prideful if we were to refuse. The love of a family is like no other. We help out our families when they’re in trouble, too. I think the cultural view of “I need to be able to support myself to be called an adult” only breeds pride, resentment, and a somewhat selfish attitude. Being able to accept help from anyone isn’t a sign of weakness, it’s a sign of humility.
However, when it becomes an expected backup to rely on family or friends to bail us out, it can breed some bad financial habits (like saving). And I say that from having been there myself when I was younger.
It’s great your fiance has a safety net. But he shouldn’t count on it forever. We all have to grow up some time. Any money always come with strings attached. Don’t accept any money until you are married. If they want to give it to him, that is fine.
See if you can afford to rent the apartment with an additional roommate. This will give you the cushion you need in case you lose your job. Or moonlight and get a second job.
As far as your wedding is concerned, best to have a small wedding and reception for family only. Then do a reception for friends like a party, it will be cheaper and you and your new husband will enjoy it more.
My husband and I have very generous parents however we never view them as our safety net. We view ourselves as one unit, and whether we’re poor or rich, it’ll only because of us. We take pride in working for our money and in addition, using some of the money to buy nice gifts for our parents who have provided for us all our lives. Rather than accepting money from our parents, we are choosing to pay them back by being generous with them. We’re adults and have jobs; we stopped looking at our parents as crutches the moment we got engaged.
Have you thought about investing some of the money that will go into your wedding into a 4 or 8 month CD? That would be a great place to put a cash gift from his family, if they choose to give it, because you wouldn’t really have access to it unless their is an emergency, and it is making you money. That way you wouldn’t be depending on it, and you might even get away with just using the interest for stuff. Or perhaps stocks? (I find stocks frightening and unwieldy, personally.)
If you haven’t already, its definitely worth meeting with some kind of financial consultant at your bank to see how to get the most out of your meager salary. A lot of people think they are good financial planners because they save, but then all of their money is just in a savings account and none of it is invested.
Also, moonlighting at a second job is a good idea, particularly if you are planning to DIY because then you could just get a job at a crafts store and score yourself a hefty discount on paper, stamps, florist supplies, and wedding paraphernalia. (Or flowershop or cake store.)
Mrs. Hummingbird, Toronto Age and Occupation: 25, Publishing Coordinator Fiance's Age and Occupation: 24, Videogame Designer/Cartoonist Engagement Date: May 4, 2007 Wedding Date: June 28, 2008 Blogging Since: September 18, 2007 Venue: A garden wedding followed by a tented reception on Mr. Hummingbird's father's property. About Me: I’m a pop culture loving, vintage obsessed foodie living in Canada’s biggest city with my fantastic fiancé and our lovable fluffy cat Bettie. I’m stoked to marry my best friend and to throw what I hope will be the most fun and colourful party of our lives.
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