Weddingbee

I trusted our photographer, and I was such the low-key bride that only my husband met with him before the wedding. It turns out that he didn’t get one shot of us exchanging rings, which makes me a little sad! I have wondered if I should have done a shot list.

I think that they can be overkill. But to me, there might be things that seem like common sense to one party (like a ring shot), and need to be spelled out.

I totally love my photographer! I didnt have a shot list and he of course knew the general pictures to take. But there were still a few missed out on/ a few key people pictures that I regret not having.
I agree you are an artist. But now looking back I wish I did have a list of a few non-traditional pictures that were important to me to give to my photographer.
In my eyes as the bride that is paying for the service it is just helping him out and giving me less stress.

I agree that a full-blown list is not ok, especially since I hired a photojournalist, but i’m going to make it clear that I want all of the big moments documented - speeches, exchanging rings, first kiss, and lots and lots of details.

I don’t see it as any different than a band’s must-play and do-not play list. I’m not composing their entire reportiore, but I know what I like, and I can’t put my trust 100% in someone I hired a few months back.

Hi Melissa~

This was a big looming question for me…should I have a shotlist? To me its just another headache on a list of a billion things “to do”. I wasnt sure about how my photog would feel also about “dictating” to him what I wanted, because, yes, I trust him. On the other hand, what if i didnt get the shots I wanted? I think for my wedding i actually WILL have a small shot list, despite your advising me not to Just small details (not people) that I DIY’ed that maybe a photographer might overlook…because I’d die if i didnt get any shots of this or that that I spent a billion hours crafting There are lots of elements in my wedding that I’m not sure my photog would know I made (versus bought) …and especially because I like to blog about details, I want to make sure there are lots of pictures of them WITHOUT people in them…typically not exactly what people would want in their “must take” photos.

Great post. I’m also glad I wont have to MAKE a shotlist….BORING! I was really clueless as to whether this was something that a photog actually likes or doesnt like to have

are there any photographers out there actually appreciate a “must take” photo list or do you all in general despise it? As a videographer, to be honest, I actually appreciate it…but thats just me. I want to be sure my clients get exactly what they want. I would hate to try to “guess” what my clients are looking for in their videos. I dont promise that i will get EVERYTHING they ask for but I try my best to do what they tell me to do. But thats just me.

we didn’t necessarily have a list, since my photog assured us that she’d capture the important (typical) moments, but we did add additional moments we wanted (a shot of my roommates & i, a shot w/the g-mas, etc).

when we saw the proofs online, we discovered that our photographer hadn’t gotten one shot of about 85% of our guests! when i asked her why she had omitted them, she explained that she liked to take “action shots” (as in, folks dancing on the dance floor), not just shots of people sitting at the table…um, great, expect for all of our older relatives or guests that prefer to not to or can’t dance!

in retrospect, i would’ve provided a more detailed shot list, instead of *assuming* that she would consider capturing ALL of our guests as typical.

i don’t think it hurts to have a list of key shots that the couple would like to have on the wedding day. not everyone wants the same poses; thus, it could be a good guide to what the couple likes. i would say it is better used as a guide/suggestion list than an absolute check-off list. but it’s nice to have b/c if there is something/someone didn’t catch, you can skim it quickly to see if you missed anything. i think it is especially important for weddings which incorporate traditions/customs that the photographer may not be as familiar with…it is not out of disrespect that lists are given, more so, here’s an idea of what we like. please try to keep these in mind on the wedding day, while we trust you to do your thing. part of a vendor’s job is of course making sure you meet the requests of your clients. as long as the bride/groom is reasonable, i dont see any harm providing a list of photos that have special meaning.

As a followup, I think as a photographer instead of thinking of it as sufficating the artistic spirit the photographer should see it as an artistic challenge. How can you make this totally boring shot that the bride only cares about look unique, different, cool. How can you play with the light, angle, aspect, whatever to make this challenging for you.

I think the difference is, our wedding is not just an artistic event to be filtered through the photographers vision. It is a wedding, not a scenic shoot in Bali. I have chosen a very talented photographer, but no matter how beautiful his photos are, he won’t know to make sure to grab a picture of all the DIY elements that my mom and I slaved over, or to get a shot of my mom and dad dancing or any of the other details that are really important to us.

One of the most common complaints on the Knot after the brides recieve their pictures, is that the photographers missed key things. And not during the traditional portrait session, but throughout the day. The photographer can get caught up in catching the things *he* thinks are important, instead of making sure to catch the things *I* think are important.

I hired my photographer for his talent, his attitude and his experience. Not for his mind reading capabilities. As a result, I will be providing him with a shot list. I’m the one paying thousands of dollars for his skillst, and if I want him to apply those skills by taking pictures of the menus and table numbers, then I’m going to make sure he knows it.

I had a list of three “must-take” photos, and we missed one of them. As a ratio, not too great (and I genuinely lament the lack of that shot), but I have hundreds of shots I love.

I think this is part of a bigger problem, the micromanaging bride. I have the receipts from my parents’ wedding, where their contract with the caterer was for “dinner,” and with the florist, “bridal bouquet.” It was beautiful and memorable and the only person fretting about flowers was the florist, ie, the person who has made a career out of fretting about flowers.

The one big memorable problem with our reception, the showdown with the caterer in the middle of the tent, boils down to him being used to being micromanaged. We wanted vendors who we could send a check and they’d do their damn jobs, and it turned out that he was the only one who couldn’t handle that. I’m sure he will never ask me for a referral, but I would be honest: the food tasted great, and if you’re a bride who wants to control all the minutia of your wedding, go for it. If you want to pay a guy to cater and have him cater, without any hald-holding, look elsewhere.

On the other end of the spectrum, solidly in Melissa’s camp, is a coworker of mine who does a lot of wedding DJ-ing on the weekends. He actually backed out of a wedding (over a year in advance, don’t worry) because he couldn’t stand the bride’s constant niggling. His explanation was, “you need to find someone you can trust, and clearly that’s not me.”

If you really feel that your photographer (or any vendor) needs that much hand-holding in order to do his or her job, maybe you should put down the shot list and spend some more time finding someone you can trust.

I don’t think it should have to be an either or scenario. I believe a talented photographer will be able to capture the unexpected moments, or beautiful shots of the light coming in through the window, without having to sacrific the details. Providing a list of things that are important shouldn’t take away from the spontinaity. How long can it take to grab detail pictures of the reception before all the guests start to arrive? Espescially when you’ve hired two photographers?

I would never hire a caterer and just trust him to pick out the foods he thinks I would enjoy, just because he’s a talented chef. I know whatever food he creates is going to taste good, but you better believe I’m going to tell him that I want a filet and that I can’t stand mushrooms.

Personally as a photographer I want to know what’s important to you. I want to know that your Aunt Cecily was your favorite aunt and you want a shot with her sometime during the night, I want to know that you don’t like your hands so you’d prefer not to have hand shots but would rather have the ring shots w/o hands. I want to know those things because it will make the end result so much better for both of us. However, I hate the lists that have 100+ shots on it and are of the sort that have ‘picture of bride, from the left, dancing with her father and smiling at mom’ or so forth. I think 25 shots MAX for the “list” is acceptable and is still workable from my POV but isn’t overbearing. I want to be worrying about YOU not the shots I may miss (i.e. the only time Dad cries during the wedding is the moment you exchange rings and the ring shot is missed).

That’s why it’s really important to meet with your photographer and go over all those fun details - so they know that you really want shots of those kleenex things you’ve slaved over! Most PJ shooters will still do posed shots as well (like of the family etc) so don’t be afraid to ask!!! I have to agree with Melissa though, PLEASE kill the LONGGGGGGGGGG shot lists.

This is probably one of my biggest regrets from the wedding, NOT having a shot list. I think our photographer did a really good job capturing our special day. However, there were some pictures (a handful) I thought were pretty standard candids that he would capture, but he didn’t. There’s no re-doing your wedding day. I am no means suggesting for people to do a super detail shot list (that would take forever!), but I would suggest listing out some key specific shots that are important to you. I blame myself for being lazy and not being more prepared before the big day.

After interviewing at least eight “photojournalistic” photographers in NYC who insisted they were “artists,” I definitely agree that a “must shoot” list is necessary. Too many portfolios were missing critical shots (like the ring exchange) and had too many shots of random relatives and everyone’s shoes. This breed of photographer needs to get over themselves. They are paid a ridiculous amount of money per hour, have the nerve to refuse to take directions on what pictures to take, and (to top it all off) expect to be treated like guests during the reception (at least 2 photographers insisted that s/he sit with the guests and be served the same meal as the guests). Does an emergency plumber demand to sit down with your family while he’s working on your pipes for that one day?

After interviewing too many of these so-called artists who charge no less then $4000 but have less than 10 weddings worth of experience, I began to only meet with those who agreed to 1) take directions on the shots I want, 2) give me complete rights over the images with the exception of personal advertising use (they can sell pics of you, your guests, or your wedding decor as stock photographs and you will never know), and 3) are willing to give me my images on DVD in high-resolution (does it really take that much more time and effort to upgrade from low-resolution?). Thankfully, I found someone who’s patient and reasonably priced. Ladies, don’t forget that WE control the market - the less we overpay, the less we’ll be overcharged. LET’S BE SMART. We pay too much to get so little (my only tangibles are a DVD and an online gallery for $3000). Photographers should at least be willing to take photos of the moments that we paid them to capture.

“you are hiring an artist…. how they see and capture the world around them- specifically relationships…”

i agree with this statement to an extent. of course we want to hire a photographer who sees how we do - but how can someone else other than ourselves truly appreciate the relationships WE have with our guests? how does a photographer know exactly who we want pictures of unless they ask us? sure they could capture candids of the guests, but if they don’t understand or know who i want more pictures of, how does that capture the relationship i have with them? i totally agree with the previous brides… sometimes we just want particular photos of certain people, because they’re important to us, no matter how unphotojournalistic or unportfolio or unartsy it may be. they’re important to us and that’s what matters.

I did prepare a moddest shot list of the ’special shots’ I wanted, because I knew as the bride I would be too busy enjoying my day… My photog wouldn’t look at my list and insisted that he would get every shot I described to him - HE DIDN’T! If he would have looked at/held the list of the FIVE photos (with thumbnail examples) I really really wanted I would be much happier with the results. During photo time, i was able to ask for two of the five, but one of the two photos was taken with no care at all and can not be used… Seriously I printed out thumbnails of the five photos I wanted. It’s sad when you pay someone for a service and they can’t be bothered with your requests…

Re: Carrie comment–MEOW!!

Frannie, your statement– “I most certainly do not care about how the artist interprets the day or how they feel.”– is a little harsh, and perfectly encapsulates the reason many vendors hate working with brides. Surely there must be a middle ground between paying someone for a service and having them be your indentured slave for the day? With good old fashioned open communication (not micromanaging, big difference) a bride and her photographer can find a happy medium in which both creativity and practicality exisit.

I am currently working with an architect to build a house. Now, I could point to a picture of a house and say “I want this. Exactly this, don’t deviate, don’t bring your sense of self, your talent, your eye. Just build me this,” But this is exactly the kind if client that architects despair working with– the one that doesn’t see the relationship as a collaboration, and rather as some sort of master/slave relationship, with the architect bowing completely to clients vision. Money does mean something, but it’s important to remember that it doesn’t mean the person you are paying is now at your complete beck and call, all sense of individuality erased.

A bride that is willing to work collaboratively with their photographer (and their band, caterer, etc. )will find their wedding day to be less stressful and filled unique and beautiful surprises.

Happy Holidays!

I personally payed over $5,000 for my photographer and she missed shots. I trusted and didn’t give a list- now I somewhat regret it. She got the important shots, but I still would have like some specifics. I think photographers especially get it into their heads that they are the artists and the brides are just the subjects- or they get all too touchy about their craft.

Melissa and other photogs- you are providing a service and customer service is key.

Wow, Melissa taking a bit of a beating here! And I don’t think it’s deserved. I think what she’s talking about killing are the pre-printed shot lists with the little check boxes… ~ I’m a wedding photographer, not a bride ~ The key is to find a photographer that you click with, that will get to know you and the details of your family and wedding plans in advance. I love getting to know my clients. By the time the wedding comes I have a big list of notes in my pocket (on my iPhone) that includes all the information I’ve gleaned from conversation or been emailed by the bride and groom leading up to the wedding. I show up a little early so I can read back though that information and mentally prepare to capture *their day*. If a bride sent me a list of 100+ must-have shots (it’s never happened) I would do my best to get them ~ it’s my job ~ but it would come at a cost of having my eyes and mind focused on a list rather than on the fleeting moment at hand. It’s a balance ~ communication in advance is the key ~ make sure they know what is special to you (and that they write it down, or you email it so they can print/re-read). And when the day comes ~ Trust. And when the pictures come ~ Enjoy. ~Bill