Wedding Blog
Edit: The seller of the original item has NEVER contacted me negatively on this issue, and I wish to clarify this. I respect her and her work. I have been contacted by several other artists regarding this issue, but not she herself and I do not want to shed any negative light on her in any way.
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I wrote a post a while back, that I won’t revisit, that displayed what was essentially a copy of a handcrafted item that I wanted for my wedding. I had contacted and followed the seller of said handmade good for about a month with no response, hoping to buy my own, and in the meantime, my gracious friend said that she would instead try to recreate a similar item for me as a gift, since I was having no luck with the seller. I was incredibly touched and what she made for me was incredibly personal, and incredibly meaningful to me, not because of what it was, but because of the love and time that was spent making it for me.
It consisted of fabric, stuffing, a couple golf tees, some wire, and a couple other miscellaneous craft supplies. No pattern was followed, no item was purchased from the original artist and reproduced, it was simply a replicated hand crafted item, from one friend to another, made with love. These items won’t be reproduced for sale, and will never be reproduced again.
I occasionally still receive hate/disgust mail in regards to the fact that my friend made this item for me. Which is perfectly fine, everyone is entitled to their opinion, and as a blogger, I understand that you always open yourself up to criticism with every post, and I welcome honest opinions, as I stand behind and believe in everything I do, and others should be able to freely voice their opposing opinions.
So, here, I’d like to encourage the debate:
DIY brides are inspired at every turn by everything they see: invitation designers, artists, magazines, catalogs, books, and even bloggers here at Weddingbee. As a Bride, when it comes to DIY’ing your wedding, when is it okay to copy something you’ve seen, and when do you cross the line into “ripping someone off”?
Furthermore, as an artist, when you see something of yours reproduced, do you feel slighted? Do you feel that if a bride cannot afford or does not have access to a particular item you sell, should she give up on her dream of having said item for her wedding or is it ok to try to recreate such an item for her personal use?
Discuss.
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Share this post: Inspired or a Ripoff?
Unless you’ve gone and copyrighted the idea as your intellectual property, and especially if you post photos of your work on the web, people are going to make their own versions. Every one of us is getting ideas from each other, and from all kinds of other sources. In your case, where you made every effort to give your business to the artist in question, going ahead and orchestrating your own interpretation for your own use is just fine.
I hate to get all litigious, but that’s what copyright laws are for. If it isn’t copyrighted, it’s pretty much fair game in my book. Even if it is and you’re able to make something for yourself that’s a close approximation and not for sale, then you should be able to do it! I don’t think you or your friend is in the wrong at all, especially since you tried to purchase the item first.
I’ve seen a purse I used to handcraft ripped off and sold by others. As far as crafts go, I think it’s perfectly fine to take inspiration from someone else and make something for yourself. It’s a bit more complicated when someone takes an idea and makes it herself for PROFIT.
Everyone would do well to remember that imitation is the finest form of flattery.
I agree with suzanno. People should not post things on the internet that they do not want mimicked. In this case, when you sincerely tried to purchase the product, the seller should simply be upset with him/herself for making poor business decisions and missing out on a legitmate sale.
I don’t actually have anything more to add, so I’ll just agree with everyone above =) Besides, I think your friend did an amazing job, and it was a really sweet thing to do, so all the hate mailers can just go be grumpy by themselves 
@ErinSea–I did a little bit of research on this, and I know somebody around here is a lawyer, so maybe they can tell us for sure. But I was pretty sure that work was covered under common law copyright even if it wasn’t submitted to the copyright office?
I will be interested to see what people think about this, Pengy, and this is a very good topic so thanks for posting it. I’ve been a little hot on this subject recently as one of my co-workers seems to be stealing ideas for her own new business, which I think is totally wrong. I think I’m with Amanda on this topic–if you’re not SELLING the item, it’s okay. I think if you’re using it for your own personal use, it’s okay. ESPECIALLY in your case, as you made every attempt to get the original artist to make it for you.
Ditto, Cherry Pie.
Wow, hate mail? That’s hard core. All of our ideas come from somewhere, whether it’s from magazines, blogs, or somewhere else. I have a hard time keeping track of what I saw where. I can’t see why people would be mad at your friend for making you a gift. It’s not like you are selling it for a profit.
As a blogging bride, I fully expect people to read my ideas and file some of them away in their memory banks for future use. There’s no copyright on my wedding.
I too agree with pretty much everything said above. It would be different if you were reproducing said craft items for sale and distribution. Almost everywhere you turn, especially in the wedding industry, someone borrowed an idea from someone or somewhere else and made it their own, so I dont see the reason for the hate mail.
If you are putting something out there on the web then expect it to be copied. People copy things on the web all the time and unless you copywrite or patent then everyone has a right to copy it. Even with a copywrite if you are using it for your own purposes and not for profit or sale then you have the right to copy it (ex. music downloaded from the web).
one of the wonderful things about the web is the spread of ideas that can be copied or modified to suit each individuals needs and wants.
In your case you attempted to purchase it and were unsuccessful so the original creator (who is by far not the first to make said items as my great grandmother used to make them and many other similar items) has absolutely no cause to blaim anyone other than him/herself for the loss of a sale.
@Miss Cream Puff: I hope that more artists like yourself will participate in this discussion. Both sides have very strong arguments and I definitely understand the aggravation of seeing something you worked so very hard for so very long on be quickly and effortly snapped up and used for someone elses gain!
I’ve always seen design as a trickle-down world, be it fashion or anything else. The trend setters imagine and explore and show us what they think is amazing, and everyone plays off of it all the way down to the Walmart/Target level.
I don’t really see the difference in homemade imitation of an item vs. buying the “marc jacobs inspired” purse at Nine West? Or seeing an awesome skirt at Anthropolgie and mimicking the pattern at home on my sewing machine?
Public blogging puts us all in a strange place, but it doesn’t take my personal right to recreate something for my own use.
Being in the creative field is tough. It takes a lot of man hours to produce most items, so they are expensive. I think it is incredibly sweet that your friend was willing to take the time and effort to create something for you that you love. In many cases, the “real” thing is just far too expensive so the artist isn’t losing any business, you would not be able to afford her work anyhow. If I were a young photographer I would try to mimic the work of the greats, if I were a young musician I would aspire to create work like my idols and so on. Also, like others have said you didn’t try to create a business out of it, it was one gift for one friend.
I remember which item you’re talking about and I remember your original posts about your friend making said item and I CAN NOT BELIVE people email you and give your crap about it. Are you serious????
Honestly that makes me so upset that you have to deal with that.
This makes me mad especially because I consider the original item that your friend was inpsired by to be a VERY expensive item, and out of most brides budgets for such a small item for the wedding. Although I like the original item in general I just consider it overpriced and every time a bride buys one I’m truly amazed.
But those thoughts aside it just makes me so upset that brides on a budget are treated so poorly and are bascially told we aren’t entitled to the same type of things as everyone else.
Everything in weddings is a copy of something…there is very little to nothing that is original. The designer dresses are copied in shape and style by the cheaper design houses, the expensive shoes have their cheaper counterparts, and real pearls and diamonds have their faux version.
So no I don’t think it’s wrong in any way to make a cheaper version of that particular item your friend made for you.
Miss CreamPuff is correct that your original ideas are copyrighted the moment they are put into form, whether or not you submit to the copyright office. So no one else can copy this post of Miss Penguin’s and pass it off as her own, even if Miss Penguin doesn’t officially apply for a copyright.
Copyright protects a fixed expression of an original idea. It does not protect the idea itself. So the “idea” of what the artist did that the friend copied is fine. The problem could be if the copy is so similar that a reasonable observer would not be able to tell the difference between the artist’s and the mimic’s (allowing for different fabrics, etc). If the friend added her own “twist” to the idea, there is likely no problem (I say likely b/c there are copyright doctrines for next-generation work, etc).
If the artist wanted to file a copyright suit against the friend, it could be a pretty tough case. I think that you tried to buy it yourself weighs pretty heavily in your/her favor though. And there are some differences, and if I were on a jury I’d think they’re “enough” for you/the friend to prevail.
Isn’t law fun??!
just like the chinese are copying popular japanese/european car models and Forever 21 are copying major fashion houses’ designs, “copying” is just a way of life and unless your item is patented or copyrighted, what are you going to do? yea i guess you can sue them but ok, thousands of dollars of legal fees later, you are all in the same place.
i think hate mail is *ridiculous* .. you made every effort to contact the artist and it’s not like you’re selling it and competing! anyone putting things on the internet needs to accept the fact that people will either reinterpret your ideas or straight up rip you off (and sell it!)
if you are threatened by that, then don’t put your stuff online!
You know, if you do a Google search you can find patterns for just about anything.
My grandma made those for years… its hardly a new idea.
I think you gave the “artist” lots of credit and advertising in your original post. Shame on her for being a poor business woman and loosing the sale! and I’m glad you have a friend who loves you so much to go to all that work!
as a designer, i have looked at others work quite often for inspiration, but my end result is usually not the same as the inspiration since my professional work usually is not for the same type of client as the work that inspires me the most.
so while i don’t have a problem with DIYers taking inspiration from what they see online I do feel their is a difference between being inspired and duplicating. Duplicating is a big no no in my book and a problem amongst the design community.
i also feel there is a difference between posting a photo of your artwork on a community board like WeddingBee and posting it on your own personal portfolio/business site. While both are public places, I feel posting something on your personal/business site implies more ownership and copyright than posting on some place like the knot or wedding bee.
as a designer, i have looked at others work quite often for inspiration, but my end result is usually not the same as the inspiration since my professional work usually is not for the same type of client as the work that inspires me the most.
so while i don’t have a problem with DIYers taking inspiration from what they see online I do feel their is a difference between being inspired and duplicating. Duplicating is a big no no in my book and a problem amongst the design community.
i also feel there is a difference between posting a photo of your artwork on a community board like WeddingBee and posting it on your own personal portfolio/business site. While both are public places, I feel posting something on your personal/business site implies more ownership and copyright than posting on some place like the knot or wedding bee.
I agree with the above comments: it’s ok as long as it’s not for profit.
I think people get carried away thinking their ideas are so unique and worth legal protection…especially regarding crafts…we all inspire each other…
It also annoys me when people harass others for “stealing ideas”…you can’t legally own every idea that seems unique and creative to you…especially when you did not legally protect yourself by obtaining a patent/trademark/etc…
I agree with everyone else.
But what DOES this thing look like??? I have a bunch of golf tees and I won’t need all of them. Is this some kind of nice decoration that I could make with them??
sorry you ‘ve been getting so much grief Peng.
i can’t believe that such a small item has caused so much trouble!
this is an interesting topic for me especially since over the past couple of days i have been scouring the web hunting down feather/silk flower fascinator type hair pieces. I just can not afford to pay $50 or more for essentially a big hair bow. Is it wrong that I am considering being creative and making one myself?
the idea of a fascinator in itself is not original nor is wearing one on one’s wedding day. but i have snagged pics of many fascinators that all look very similiar….
Its confusing but I dont see anything wrong with it.
incidently, i worked with a designer who was involved in a law suit because one of her clients thought the logo she made for another client was too similar the original and client a was suing client b to stop using the logo even though they were in different types of business. the designer showed both logos to several people in the office, designers and non and no one thought you could confuse them. unfortunately i left that job before learning the resolution to her case, but i would just caution people about copying others work, some people are nutty about their copyrights.
I think that in your particular situation, you’re off the hook. You blogged about the inspiration and gave credit where credit is due PRIOR to blogging about the DIY gift.
What I absolutely abhor is when people steal other people’s ideas - from other blogs, from other websites, etc. - and not credit the person where you got the original idea from.
If it’s patented - that’s a whole ‘nother ball game and completely unacceptable.
I try to credit the ideas that I get and post about on my blog all the time. Occasionally, my DIY projects are a conglomeration of many ideas - and at some point if it becomes unique and my own, I don’t feel the need to credit.
So please, bloggers all around, give credit where credit is do!
PS - just read the original blog post and the artists’ blog about people ripping off her designs and she said “My birds are being produced and sold in Australia.” as has been said, you AREN’T SELLING these!
sorry, but the comments in the old blog post really piss me off. if you don’t want people to “rip you off”, then don’t put it online. how much crap is all over etsy that is just a ripoff of a ripoff?
seriously - this copyright crap for just blogging about a homemade project is ridiculous.
Just a point of clarification–as soon as something is MADE it is absolutely protected by copyright. This means as soon as an artist produces a drawing, a photographer takes a photograph, a designer creates an invitation proof, they own the copyright that instant. The reason for actually registering your copyright is to formally protect your work (i.e., if you had to sue something for stealing your work). Copyright has many many grey areas, which can totally be a pain.
Honestly, Peng, as an artist, I would think that you are absolutely in the right here. Designers do understand that once you create something, someone somewhere is going to copy it. It happens. The time when it crosses the line is someone else making a profit by stealing your work. ONE item for personal use inspired by an original? Enh. Taking a drawing without permission and reproducing it? That is starting to cross the line. Making money for yourself by producing something that looks exactly like the original? Not ok.
However, people do cross the line and don’t even think about it. I had designed an invitation suite for a client, who said she was going in a different direction. I then found out that she took my design, made NO changes, and still used it. This is why I now require all clients to pay in advance for design services and am stict about my refund policy.
I have personally made things for myself based on commercially available pieces, but I also am very careful to not completely copy the original. Maybe I am over sensitive since I do value my time/talent/whatever, but it does make me a little bit irritated to see an inferior copy of something I’ve done. I really really really dislike the “imitation is the sincerist form of flattery” notion–talk to the person who’s work is being slighted. It’s not flattering.
The other tricky thing–you cannot copyright an idea. So your birdmaker cannot copyright the IDEA of a stuffed bird, she can only copyright her pattern. In art school, students are instructed in copyright law (we had an ENTIRE semester), and should be aware of all this and take appropriate precautions.
Yikes. I’ll end my mini-rant with this–please think very very carefully before you use/steal/rip-off/are inspired by someone else’s work. I think Miss Penguin absolutely is ok–she tried to purchase the original, for goodness sake!–and appears to have no plans for wrongdoing.
Ok, done. 
I think that in your particular situation, you’re off the hook. You blogged about the inspiration and gave credit where credit is due PRIOR to blogging about the DIY gift.
What I absolutely abhor is when people steal other people’s ideas - from other blogs, from other websites, etc. - and not credit the person where you got the original idea from.
If it’s patented - that’s a whole ‘nother ball game and completely unacceptable.
I try to credit the ideas that I get and post about on my blog all the time. Occasionally, my DIY projects are a conglomeration of many ideas - and at some point if it becomes unique and my own, I don’t feel the need to credit.
So please, bloggers all around, give credit where credit is due!
Something to think about:
There’s a difference between legality and morality.
Sure, it may not be illegal to steal another brides brilliant idea and boast about it like it’s your own, but it’s not exactly moral now is it?
Miss Penguin I am so sorry you have had to deal with this. The thing is that especially now in the world of the DIY bride so much is being copied. We look to Martha to inspire us, we look to the knot. weddingbee, etsy and a million other sources all to possibly make something of our own for cheaper. The thing is that for most of us brides it is a one time deal, we don’t plan to make a business, we don’t plan to say it is our own, we will tell people where we got the idea or how someone can simply purchase it. But just this once we will try to replicate it. It will never come out the same, it can’t we aren’t the original artist. Even yours which are lovely don’t look like exactly like the original. Moreover you weren’t do this to gain a profit, nor was your friend, but instead for this one occasion. Lets face it the world is built on copies, there really are very few originals. We pick flowers based on other girls we have seen, a designer dress that was somewhat replicated for a cheaper price, we copy people’s signs and sayings, we watch movies based on other movies, we pick politicians trying to look like past politicians, food from a restaurant that replicate’s someone’s mother’s cooking, we buy clothes from Target that look like they came from someplace else, it is life. So to say we can’t replicate a craft is silly and to give someone grief over it is sillier. You weren’t try to pretend she made it, you aren’t selling it for profit, you were simply being like most humans, replicating others.
eh i don’t really see the force of your point katy.
i agree that there’s a difference between legality and morality
but pengy did not steal an idea and boast about it as her own.. if anything she credited the original multiple times and was completely respectful about it. i think she’s got nothing to be ashamed of in the way she conducted herself morally.
Penguin.. you do not deserve hate mail for this in any way. The only “grey area” I can see is that the original post had step-by-step instructions (I think?? I could be wrong) so maybe as an artist, I might be upset about that. Anyway, your one little (cute adorable fantastic) bird does not constitute “ripping off” in the same way that Louis Vuitton is ripped off every time a cheap exact copy is made and sold on the street.
I’m sorry, as an artist I might be alone in saying this since it seems the other people saying they’re artists are horrified (I’m including the people who originally posted to Miss Penguin’s original craft post). Ideas are not likely to be 100% original. Are we never allowed to be crafty ourselves in our own home for our own purposes based on the inspiration of something else? If you decide you want to build a treehouse, must you get explicit permission from someone who posted a picture of a treehouse he/she built on a website? Even if technically you should, how many people ever do that?
How many people get permission from Pottery Barn to decorate a room similar to a picture in the catalog, potentially using other pieces that didn’t come from PB?? How many times have you seen a vase at a store that is similar to another vase in another store? And if you make ceramics, is it now completely out of the question that you ever throw a vase in a similar shape and paint it similar colors?? Is every vase we see on etsy totally original and never been done before? Of course not…but people get inspired and have the ability to make something themselves which a lot of the time isn’t even just to save money or something but because it’s really satisfying to make things yourself and especially for your wedding. I think if you are not making absolute duplicates and using them for your own gain and not trying to pass it off as your original idea or pass it off as the work of someone else…then that to me is just being inspired.
I like Aimee’s comments–just one thing to add. I haven’t seen the artist’s post, but I think that one of the things that may be adding salt to her wounds is that you’re friend essentially showed that an imitation could be crafted that wasn’t far from the original art. And it seems to me a lot of the value in these particular original artwork pieces is in their relative rarity & high price tags. So essentially, you/she boiled an art piece down to a craft piece…
I’m all about finding inspiration online now–but I think it’s soooo super important to add your own twist to the idea you may be borrowing AND to give credit to the original.
I think there’s also a certain amount of honesty & humility that come into play–attitude does count! I certainly wouldn’t want to brag that, since I was borrowing an idea from someone else, I was able to do it better & cheaper than them…
Jay broke it down correctly. I think it’s fine if your friend did not make an exact replica of the piece but rather did something somewhat similar with her own creativity and flavor thrown in.
To address somet things that were written previously, just because there is access on the internet to a variety of images, patterns, etc. does not mean they are fair game. Even here on Wedding Bee, the bees must include the sources of their pictures and images. Also it does not matter whether Miss Pengy intends to sell anything for profit. One of the purposes of copyright law is to encourage creativity in the marketplace rather than to hinder it. If people believe their ideas will not receive some sort of protection why go through the effort to create and innovate.
Regardless of this all, Miss Pengy, you have no right to be harassed or threatenened in any way. Good luck.
I thought that was the whole point of weddingbee. To “share.” If people don’t want their stuff copied they should keep in in their heads. It’s a free (mostly) country. Geez.
I would tell those people sending mean mail not to get on WB and to buzz off.
I think if you put something on the web (that is not trade-marked, not for sale) it is fair game. That is the point of having sites like these-to get ideas. When does it stop? Are we not allowed to use the same hair styles? Flowers? Some of my ideas that I am really excited about for my wedding-I am not posting on a blog because I don’t want others to copy. It’s common sense-why would you put instructions if you didn’t think people would use them?
not for profit. the end.
happy wedding!
Jay and Carib Queen - I’m not that familiar with intellectual property law - but I had reason to learn a little bit because of another case I was working on. Anyway, I’m wondering:
Wouldn’t a cause of action by the original artist have to have an element of damages? And, if so, what are the original designer’s damages here?
Thanks!
@brendalynn: No worries Brenda! My comments go into moderation often. I believe weddingbee is programmed to pick up on trigger words that often times seem pretty harmless the way you use them in context. Just for reference, if you take a look at Mrs Lemon’s comment earlier, that one went into moderation…and its perfectly harmless. We guessed the word “Walmart” triggered the mod, as you can see how someone might use that word negatively.
Its just an auto mod that is cleared by the webmasters in no time
This is a tough one Peng. I know you tried really hard to get it from the original artist, so kudos to you.
I agree that imitation is flattery… and plus, ideas are meant to be shared. We live in a modern world that is full of stimuli with access to everything right at our fingertips. If no one’s business is getting taken away then I think it’s fine.
I support you Pengy!! What’s the point of DIY, if we aren’t inspired by someone, somewhere? You have a great gift from a friend that is priceless and the people who don’t see that must be blind.
HCB–
re: damages
Copyright law imposes statutory damages–somewhere in the neighborhood of $25-50K, I believe, for infringing materials. There are other remedies too. A copyright owner can claim seizure of the copyright infringing materials. The copyright owner can collect damages for loss of profits and the profits of the infringer.
I think the “damages” if any in a situation like this could be lost profits from others now knowing how to implement the idea. Which moves a bit toward patent law, and I’m not sure how that interaction would play out in a damages context.
Oh, and I’m no one’s attorney and this does not constitute legal advice!
Miss P, I was someone who brought you to task for this, however, I’m appalled that you received hate mail. THAT is terrible.
my point was: step by step instructions, on a hugely popular website. As an artist, that’s where I become uncomfortable.
Thanks for the clarification… and the disclaimer.
My family members especially appreciate when I tell them (after a random legal conversation) that they have not engaged me as their attorney and my comments do not constitute legal advice.
Look at the companies that make money under the principle that one can DIY: Martha Stewart, Michael’s, Joann’s, Archivers, etc. They all provide ideas and EXACT instructions for how to DIY the projects. The bookstores are filled with magazines and books with the same concept. The line is far too blurred. It is my belief that if you aren’t making a profit it really shouldn’t matter. But here is the problem: You have to look at whether you caused loss of profit to said artist. By publicly demonstrating that with “fabric, stuffing, a couple golf tees, some wire, and a couple other miscellaneous craft supplies” you could make a very similar item at a far reduced price, you may have done damage to the artist produced product. Maybe certain products should be left to the privacy of your home or wedding day. Though I love seeing all the projects!!
I think you make a great point. As a budget conscious bride I don’t feel I deserve less because I cant afford “artist” prices. I don’t want to know the artist that believes otherwise.
@HCB: Jay: Sorry! I re-read my last comment and realized it could be interpreted as sort of smart-@ss… in a bad way. I really didn’t mean to, it was more of an acknowledgment of our need to issue disclaimers even in innocuous situations. I hope that makes sense.
Anyway, I’m going to stop posting now… before I put my foot in my mouth. Again.
It’s an interesting issue. I’m more inclined to go with what Jay and Carib Queen said. I used to work at a law school, where they had a benefit with raffles/prizes. One of the prizes happened to be a beautiful, ridiculously expensive bag. One of the students there didn’t win it and also didn’t have enough dough to buy it so she made it herself, and posted the instructions on her craft website. Unfortunately for her (and me), I had to contact her to take it down after a furious email from the dean. I don’t know the litigious aspects of what exactly went down, but all I know is, it didnt’ turn out well in that particular instance, even though she wasn’t selling it.
As a bride, I, too, have been (sometimes maniacally) inspired by stuff, and sometimes being blatantly similar to someone else. I stopped short after I wanted this popular team mascot to come to my wedding, and after he couldn’t, I considered for a few days making his costume out of paper mache and hiring someone to wear it. Thankfully, my fiance is sane, and put a stop to it.
If your an artist, whatever you make is automatically copywritten. So that etsy seller already has protection under the law. Getting my BFA in photo this is drilled into me.
But that said, everyone gets inspiration from somewhere. The key word is inspiration. A direct knock off is wrong. Taking a few hints here and there- ok, as long as you acknowledge where you got it from.
And I detest how people say if it’s on the internet, it’s free game. So, just because I’m on the internet no laws apply?? I can do/say/take whatever I want? I think people forget that just because they are sitting at their computer alone does not mean there are not other people on their computers making those things- real people, real lives, real work.
Inspiration not replication.
@brendalynn: I’m not sure where you got the impression that I ever under any circumstances used the words “better” or “cheaper” at all, and I do 100% believe that, as you put it, “honesty & humility that come into play–attitude does count!” This is SO so true!
@elle: Hi Elle! Again, I encourage constructive criticism and honest opinions, and thats why I really wanted to open up this debate. I hope you can share your opinion openly with us here too, as obviously this is a brides site, so you will hear a lot more brides opinions than artists, so I’d really like to hear from any of you at all out there…what you consider okay and not okay when it comes to your work. Obviously, its a heated and touchy subject for all.
I would like to say that I am so very proud of you Penguin, for not only standing up for what you believe, but also allowing others to have their input. This is clearly a topic of interest, given all the comments here! I commend you and all the bees who put their work and their thoughts on this blog, whether it be original or inspired. Opening yourself up to the opinions of others is not easy. I believe that without courageous DIY-ers like the bees, the rest of us would be stuck paying outrageous sums for mediocre products… Way to go!
sorry guys — was away for an hour. this post is getting a lot of comments (a common indicator of spam) which is probably why so many comments are going into moderation.
i have to leave shortly to meet up with wb reader beanchar and miss lovebird…. so comments may continue going into moderation…. but i’ll clear them as soon as i return!
Thanks, Jay for answering the damages question. Copyright class was a while ago!
Somewhat of an aside on the issue–a couple of people mentioned fashion as an example, so I just wanted to point out that while the legalese that was posted regarding copyright is generally correct, fashion (clothing; I’m not sure what else is included) is NOT covered by copyright law. So this means I could copy a famous designer dress, down to the last detail, and sell it for profit and without citing a “source”, with no legal problems. The only thing I can’t do legally is say that it was actually made by said famous designer, because that would be fraud. This is not to say it would be ETHICAL to do so, but it would be LEGAL. (Note: I believe several bills were introduced to congress recently to address this issue, but I do not believe any of them passed. Please correct me if I’m wrong.)
Whoa! Holy comments Batman!
I definitely don’t have enough time to read the previous 60 comments, and this has probably already been said, but I just think that is ridiculous.
You weren’t selling them, so who cares?! It was only for your own personal use.
Even if some copyright law does somehow apply (and I’m obviously not a lawyer) I cannot possibly imagine anyone taking something that stupid to court.
I mean seriously… if I have a dinner party and copy a certain dish that I ate out at a restaurant (which I often do!) and then I happen to blog about it my party, can said restaurant come after me for stealing their idea.
It’s a silly analogy, I know, but really it’s kind of the same thing. It’s not like Penguin’s friend was making these items to be SOLD.
Not to mention… when charging about a week’s pay for a small, relatively unimportant wedding item, it’s almost asking for people to just try and make it themselves. Because, let’s be honest here, it’s not that hard to do. That’s why there are so many rip-offs of this particular item out there.
HCB–certainly no offense taken! My non-lawyer family and friends crack up too. There’s even a Knottie who posts in the Buying A House forum that has the disclaimer in her siggy.
If one lawyer can’t make even a tiny joke w/ another, that would be too bad.
And carib queen….I *may* have pulled out my IP textbook to get the statutory damages figure. Shh.
Oh, and Mrs. Radish: recipes are held to be non-copyrightable, so cook and blog away. But cookbooks CAN be copyrighted for how the material is arranged and presented. Heehee.
Check out the (rather silly) hubub about John McCain’s wife’s recipes on the McCain website being copied from Food Network chefs if you want more recipe/copyright fun.
I agree with the rest. There is thin fine line between getting inspired and hands-down imitating.
And honestly though, when you’re a crafty person and you see something that you like (especially when it’s outrageously overpriced), sometimes you can’t help it but say: “But I can make that myself…”
hey ms. penguin!
i read the post with the (very very cute!) product that you indicated.
i agree that since it wasn’t for sale, the reproduction (which was not identical, but similar) was ok.
however, i think some of the controversy comes from the fact that directions of how to reproduce them was included in the post. this, while well-meaning, could be in violation of some copy-right law (i’m not a lawyer, but i think it is a possibility).
since the directions were not too detailed i don’t think you have to worry too much. but, you could run into trouble with the fact that you were (unintentionally) encouraging others to reproduce the product in some way.
either way, i know there was obviously no intent to detract from the designer’s work. your friend was just trying to do something special for you.
good luck, and sorry about the harsh e-mails you’ve received.
I also cannot believe ppl have email you to give you grief!
I think you went above what needed to, to try and get the original DIYer/artist to create one for you and I think it was incredibly generous of you friend to make one for you… it would be a little bit of a different issue if the DIYer/artist contacted you and was upset, but stil not a rip off.
Jean: I should clarify - if you had read my earlier comment, I had stated that I didn’t feel that Miss Penguin has committed an immoral act because she has said cited the original artist. And Miss Penguin, I do hope that you noticed what I had stated earlier.
What I meant, in regards to the difference between legal and immoral acts, was for those stating that people shouldn’t get their feather ruffled by people stealing other people’s creative ideas from their blogs and then re-writing or re-creating them as their own. Miss Penguin didn’t do this - but I do think that it was an issue that was touched on and I wanted to address it.
I still think it’s wrong to steal someone’s idea and claim it like it was your own without giving them credit.
WWMD? What Would Martha Do…or really, what has Martha done?
@Jay: thanks for the advice, but it was just an ANALOGY to show the silliness of the situation… I am not actually worried about recipe copyright law.
In fact, I couldn’t really care less
@KatyStardust: Hey there, I dont think anyone has said anything today that has crossed any sort of line, so no worries…I think you were just speaking in general terms not really referencing specific act in particular. I read what you were saying
@Miss Penguin: You got it Miss P.
In general, it just ruffles my feathers when people don’t show the same courtesy I try to give in regards to creative credit. I ALWAYS spend the extra minutes citing photos, ideas, and inspirations when I blog at both websites. It’s not always an easy task - but I would hope to expect the same from my readers when it comes to the creativity I share there.
There is a difference between ART and CRAFT - recipes, knitting instructions and many other items fall under the “craft” arena, there’s certain steps to follow to make multiples of one thing and add your own flair. And then there is art - which is different, which requires special skills or techniques and is not meant to be replicated by the masses. I think Etsy sort of blurs those lines and makes things that are craftsy into things that are artsy and vice versa.
I gotta say that I’m really disappointed that people think the web is someplace for free ideas, logos, artwork, and anything else they need. As a creative professional it’s disheartening to see that no one knows how copyright works, or thinks that I have a right to show my work online and NOT be ripped off or copied.
Everyone has said everything I could, but I just wanted to add, Miss Penguin, that you rock. I know that I would feel really hurt if I was getting hate mail and I sincerely hope that you don’t get down about it. Your birds are awesome!
Haters gon’ hate.
I think that as long as it isn’t to sell, than it is perfectly fine. God forbid you get inspiration for something or when you can’t get it for whatever reason you improvise. Its for someones bloody wedding, its a special day and honestly one little set of cake toppers shouldn’t be that big of a deal. Who was the first one to bling out monogrammed cake toppers? How many bloody websites do you see it on, or DIYers doing it? I don’t see how this is any different. People need to get over it and get on to things that actually matter in life.
Mrs. Radish–I was mostly kidding. And I wanted to reassure people that copyright isn’t nearly as ridiculous as some people seem to think it is.
LB–posting directions is most definitely NOT copyright infringement. You cannot copyright a method. You may be able to copyright the words used to describe a method, but “method” would go with patent law, absolutely not copyright.
I usually don’t get this riled up when people “play lawyer” but since this is an area I particularly care about, I want to try to correct some false impressions and mis-information being bandied about.
I just read through all of the posts (whew, there are a lot) to make sure my comment won’t be redundant.
On weddingbee a lot of people post how to DIY in order to save money. They fail to note that while the total cost of MATERIALS may be less than purchasing the actual item - there is a cost of TIME. So even though I now know I can spend 7 hours gocco-ing napkins, I’d rather pay the extra $30 because time is just as limited a resource (to me) as money is, and my time is worth more than $4 an hour. (This is not meant as a dig to you DIY - a lot of people enjoy DIY and thus it is rewarding - I just cry a lot and thus I need to be saving a lot of money to DIY).
So how does it tie in with this post - I still buy a lot of stuff I know I can “make for less” (as in the item Peng’s friend made). It is not because we have a large budget, it is just that the pros (save money) don’t outweigh the cons (lots of time). There is value in the materials, there is value in the know-how, but there is also value in the time it takes to make something. Peng tried to pay the artist for her materials, know-how, and TIME. Posting directions does not change that the artist is also selling her time in creating her art and thus it retains value. (I will concede that value was lost by spreading the know-how) - but I’d still buy one instead of DIY.
And, I’m not a hive freak - I am DIY my invitations, I just have hired an ETSY designer to deal with the software side and a printer to print… but I AM assembling them! (I think it will be fun).
As an artist myself, albeit very small time and hardly selling any of my work at present, I dont have a problem with people being inspired by my work and creating replicas providing they are for PERSONAL use only. Whenever I see someone copy my work and try claim it as their own for profit I see red, but if its just for themselves I dont mind. Of course I prefer them to contact me and get my ok - which Im more than willing to do, but yeah, not for profit = no problem
I think your friend’s bird is charming and falls very safely on the “inspired by” side of the line.
I don’t see the problem at all because it is for personal use. My brother in law’s mom used to make all her kids clothes because she couldn’t afford to buy them brand clothes. Every time they saw something expensive in the store, she tried to copy it. I mean sure they didn’t look exactly the same, but either way it was “inspired” and I don’t see how it is wrong unless you try to sell it.
i’m very interested in intellectual property, and as a librarian, i have to know something about it (thought not as much as an IP lawyer)…
i think that one negative thing coming out of etsy and the ease of selling products on-line is that everyone has an expectation that everything they do should be successful…and if it isn’t, then we see this creative community who on the surface is all about sharing ideas, starting to get upset about copyright.
while someone mentioned that copyright is meant to spur creativity in the market place, and protection is an incentive to create, you can also freeze a market with overly-aggressive laws.
like it or not, a lot of this tension is market driven. i think the craft world, much like the music world, is getting a little crazy over-saturated with product, and people are finding other ways to participate and have access.
i don’t understand the people that think posting instructions were crossing some imaginary line…the instructions were how *she* did it, not this other seller who couldn’t be bothered to be a responsive business person.
i know i sound a bit harsh, but in a highly saturated market, it takes more than just artistic talent to have a successful business. we can has over the finer points of copyright law all day long and not have a good answer, but the people and business who succeed are going to have a better plan for selling their work.
those people are HATERS, miss penguin. brush your shoulders off. seriously, just like everyone said above, your friend was NOT trying to profit but to do something very sweet using her crafting talents! there is NOTHING WRONG with that, and no one said the original crafter was a copycat even though it was the lord above who designed birdies in the first place
What frustrates me the most is the fact that this idea was most likely conceived by someone else first, before this artist! Most ideas are. I hate the ‘OMG COPIER’ attitude on etsy and craftster sometimes. Usually, the ‘first person’ to ‘do something’ on those sites is not the first person to conceive the idea. But due to a bizarre community social effect, there is backlash against anyone other than the OP. The majority of the time, it’s a basic idea that anyone could come up with the inspiration for, and make in their own home.
It is a fine line - I can’t remember what the original post is (can someone enlighten me? pretty please?) but as an example, if you make a ‘clothespin doll wedding cake topper’ or ’stuffed birds with wire feet’……. maybe some prominent artist is choked because they make those as well and are successful at doing so…. however. They in no way have the rights to go on an OMG COPIER rampage, and neither do the fans of their work.
Now if, on your clothespin doll, you copied everything right down to the placement of the painted mole on it’s face, and the fabric print of their ‘dress’, they might have reason to be upset. If your stuffed bird uses the same fabric, etcetera…. then possibly. But really…. I can’t believe that you are receiving hate mail from people over this, it is ridiculous.
This comes from an artist that sells work online. Too many people get choked up about someone else using the IDEA and not copying the exact item. It’s like teenagers that get mad at their friends in high school because “OH MY GOD, I THOUGHT OF PUTTING THAT STICK-ON-EARRING IN THE CORNER OF MY EYE FIRST!!!” - aka immature. It also accomplishes nothing but alienating people and creating rifts.
I’m an artist who creates and sells jewelry at art fairs sometimes. For the most part, if someone is doing a one-off, making just one of something “inspired” by one of my creations, I wouldn’t have a problem with it. If they were selling that one item to someone else, it would bug me, but I’d only be REALLY upset only if it was being mass-produced and sold! Don’t even tell me all the artists writing hate mail aren’t gaining inspiration from others in some form or another.
Everyone keeps going back to how she posted step-by-step instructions, but I don’t see how that is any worse than posting about the reproduced item at all (if you think it is a bad thing to do). It has been said over and over, but almost no ideas are original anymore. If I see a photographer took an amazing picture of the Eiffel tower and I do my best to duplicate that exact image am I infringing on copyright? If I like Andy Warhol’s version of Marilyn Monroe and I use that image to inspire the painting of my own am I doing anything morally wrong?
If the materials are available to all, shouldn’t the deisgn be considered unique to all who produce it?
I don’t know anything about law (as is evidenced by my post I am sure), but someone mentioned moral issues, and I don’t think that Miss Penguin was morally wrong either. What she created was not in fact an original design to the artist, if I remember correctly she received a little inspiration herself when she created it. Like from nature?
As as baker (or as I like to tell people, a cake artist :-), I sometimes think it would be nice to copyright a cake design. However, in reality, it would just be silly. For one, it’s not really enforceable - almost any change to the original design would discount it from being a duplicate and therefore a copyright infringement. And second, I believe that competition is healthy. It may not always be fair but it’s healthy. For the most part, if you offer a quality product and service, there will be people who will recognize and support your work. Just think of all the people who pay outrageous prices for designer jewelry, clothes, etc.
At some point, everyone has benefitted from competition, from someone looking at a product or idea and saying, “I can make that cheaper, better, faster, etc.” Don’t get me wrong, if someone’s got a lot invested in an item and want it to be protected, then he/she should get a patent for that item.
As an artist and business person, I appreciate our free market and believe competition is healthy. Bring it on!
[...] Inspired or a Rip-Off? by Miss Penguin [...]
[...] weddings — laragale @ 8:27 am Tags: copying, wedding bee, wedding planning, weddings Miss Penguin’s recent post on Wedding-Bee inspired me to tackle an issue I have been mulling over for quite some [...]
i believe that for these matters, it only becomes an issue when someone takes the idea, makes it and makes a profit from it. if it’s just for personal use, then what’s the big deal, you know?
there’s several circumstances in which you really just have to DIY something that you see… whether it’s cost or accessibility. it only should really become a problem if you take that item you’ve made, sell it and essentially take the money straight out of the hands of the artist that thought of it to begin with.
I did the same as your friend did, for my cousin. I copied the cherry blossom hairpins from http://www.io-mareas.com/ for my cousin to wear for her wedding.
I think I’m about on the same page as you: done as gifts between friends or for personal use, is just fine. there are also many ideas out there that are generic enough that nobody should get huffy if someone else figures it out on their own and makes it for sale as well, though buying something and then reverse engineering it to copy would probably be going to far.
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Mrs. Penguin, Northern California
Age and Occupation: 27, Weddingbee Editor in Chief
Fiance's Age and Occupation: 30, Doctor of Physical Therapy
Engagement Date: January 29, 2007
Wedding Date: June 7, 2008
Blogging Since: September 14, 2007
Venue: Winery in the Gold Country
About Me: I love the Spice Girls, dogs with underbites, bean burritos, making messes, high fives, avoiding showers, crossword puzzles, blogs, weddings, and blogs about weddings!
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