Mrs. Gingerbread, Vancouver
Age and Occupation: 32, Psychologist
Fiance's Age and Occupation: 33, Software Engineer
Engagement Date: Sometime in the fall of 2004
Wedding Date: July, 2008
Blogging Since: March 24, 2008
Venue: Rainforest wedding, beachfront restaurant reception
About Me: I recently moved to Canada from Southern California. Trying to plan a wedding in a new city, not to mention a new country, is tough, but the fact that we can get legally married here more than makes up for it! The wedding will be an opportunity for most of our family and friends to see our new city for the first time so it will be both a wedding and a reunion. Besides my future wife, I am also madly in love with a good bargain, Swedish pastries, Tivo, and my two dogs and calico cat (in no particular order).
The Morning After
May 16th, 2008 @ 11:55 am by Mrs. Gingerbread
Wow, yesterday was quite a day! I have to say a big thank you to all of the readers who left supportive comments. It was so nice to have your company as I hit refresh a million times on various news websites yesterday morning waiting for the ruling. And can you believe that I got the good news right there in my post from the fabulous Amy H.? I was watching CNN misreport that the ruling was against same-sex marriage when Amy H. posted the good news! Yep, turn to Weddingbee readers for all of your late breaking news 
Last night we had some fellow “Love Exiles” over for champagne to celebrate. None of us can return to the U.S. with our partners since immigration is a federal marriage right, but we appreciate this important step towards equality. And we celebrate for all of our friends in California who can now say “I do” again, like Ellen and Shelly.
So now what? I want to keep celebrating, but unfortunately reality is setting in. In the short term, same-sex couples have the right to get married in California. Unfortunately, our celebration may be short lived because groups opposing same-sex marriage have been able to qualify a ballot measure onto the November ballot to amend the state constitution to ban same-sex marriage. This means that while the State Supreme Court ruled that denying same-sex couples the right to get married is unconstitutional, if the amendment passes in November, banning same-sex marriage WILL be constitutional.
I assume from the 70+ supportive comments that you left yesterday that you don’t want to see this happen. What can you do? LOTS! First, talk to your friends and family about the issue. This is the single most important thing that you can do. Even the Republican Governor, Arnold Schwarzenegger, does not want this constitutional amendment to pass. Second, donate your time and money to groups like Equality for All and the National Center for Lesbian Rights. Those in favour of a constitutional amendment which would strip same-sex couples of their right to marry have already poured $2 million dollars into placing the constitutional amendment on the ballot. They are talking about spending $10 million more to pass it in November.
So while most couples who plan to marry are tasting cake and debating about colours, same-sex couples in California also have to worry about this constitutional amendment. It would be fantastic if our supportive allies would chip in to help
94 Responses to “The Morning After”
I am so excited for equal marriage rights!!! As a proud MA resident and fervent supporter of the right to marriage, I know we are sending legal & monetary support to help defeat the amendment.
I just can’t get over how much time people waste trying to fight same-sex marriage legalization. Oh my goodness, two people in love want to be together forever! The world is ending! Seriously, couldn’t they spend their time fighting crime or something? Something that HURTS people?
I’m not from the USA, so I don’t really know how it all works with you not being able to return home, but I’m glad this step was taken today and that things only get better from now on!
I’m also a fervent supporter of equal marriage rights– thank you for posting the two links. I’ll definitely be looking into putting my time and money towards a good cause!
@laura: & @Miss Jasmine: Thank you for pitching in!
@Katharine: I appreciate your sentiments Here’s a little background on our situation: Miss GB 2.0 is not a U.S. citizen, so even though she lived there legally on student and work visas for a dozen years, she couldn’t stay permanently. If she married a man, she could get a green card through marriage. Since the U.S. federal government doesn’t recognize same-sex marriage, marrying me doesn’t help. So we moved to Canada to stay together. (More info - http://www.immigrationequality.org/template.php?pageid=2)
Don’t forget about the hard work done by the Human Rights Campaign, which is dedicated to acheiving equality in marriage!
Check them out at: http://www.hrc.org
Donate to the HRC California Marriage PAC at: https://secure.ga3.org/03/caequalpac
Samesex marriage is against God’s plan for his people. It is clearly stated in the Bible
Leviticus 20:13: If a man also lie with mankind, as he lieth with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination”
I’m not trying to cause a stir- i truly love weddingbee.com, and have been a supporter of this website, however, in my heart i can’t read a post like this without saying what I said. God is a God of love and He loves his people. I truly believe the same-sex marriage movement is breaking his heart as he watches what man is doing to twist the love he has put in our hearts.
@Katharine: I agree, it baffles me as well.
I will definitely spread the word on voting against over turning this! As a straving student my funds are VERY low, but I’ll so what I an w/ my voice
@anon: I understand the need to voice your opinion, but this is not the place.
from one heathen to another, much love to you, Miss GB!
We will be there fighting with you every step of the way! My FI have had a very hard time with this and our guilty feelings of being able to get married, while some of our close friends cannot. Love is love, period. And everyone should have the right to share their life in every way with the person they love.
Miss Gingerbread… I totally thought about you when I heard the news on my way home from work last night. I did a little happy dance in my car for all the GLBT folks I know! With all the difficult news coming from Myanmar and China it was so nice to hear some encouraging news. It made me very proud to be a former Californian! woohoo!
anon had quite a bit of guts to make that post…
but i’ve been stirring as well since i read you post yesterday too…. i love weddingbee.com as well, and have been a loyal reader for a very long time! however i created an alias just so i could post this w/o getting hated on…. i know this is a touchy topic, but last time i checked weddingbee is a site meant to talk about weddings and the details surrounding them, not political agendas.
by you posting constantly about the injustice towards homosexuality, your pushing away many loyal readers who love to come to this site to read exactly what it’s meant for - weddings plain and simple!
i know anon and i speak for many traditional and conservative brides out there, please lay off the blatant political pushing, we believe that the sanctity of marriage is a special thing to be enjoyed as God intended it. and last time i checked… when we voted last on protecting marriage, the whole state of CA overwhelmingly overruled homosexual marriage, now the supreme court of CA has taken the matter into it’s own hands to create law… that’s a very scary prospect that the majority of people asked to protect marriage yet a select few decided to try to usher it in!
please please, for the sake of many of us out here reading and loyally…. consider that there are bees that believe differently than you do.
thanks
I have to respectfully disagree with what anon posted above. I also believe in a loving God. The kind who would rather see two people who love each other together instead of torn apart, no matter their sexual orientation. No bible verse will change how I feel in my heart about this. I’ll be doing all I can to support the defeat of the marriage ban amendment.
I was toasting from my neck of the woods yesterday. My aunt, someone really dear to my heart and my hero since childhood continues to fight this battle. We’ve asked that she be our officient in our wedding and she has accepted- and yet part of me feels enraged that while she can legally marry us… she herself can not be married. We’ve already decided that this is where our charitable contributions for our favors will go.
I live beneath the bible belt of the south… and it is really difficult to swallow the often ignorant views that surround not only gay marriage but other ways of life (i/e my fiance and I are inter-racial)… It is really tough because being in a position where you often must defend your beliefs to the opposing side, you are placed in a position where you must be compassionate and understanding and diplomatic- and yet “they” can simply have their strong and hurtful opinions and beliefs without such diplomacy and tact. Days like yesterday were really great. Perhaps the world is finally a- changin’!
I know a number of heterosexual couples in the states who are holding off on getting married until their homosexual friends have the same rights, so I would say news like this is fairly important to planning their weddings.
And please, don’t complain about someone’s agenda pushing and then fire back with your own. If you’re not supportive of what this post is saying, then move onto the next one. Personally I find posts agonizing over what shoes to wear to be trivial and silly, but I’m not going to crap all over their comments section. I enjoy seeing posts with a little more depth and meaning.
So please, just move on.
And as a final note: “yet a select few decided to try to usher it in”
Welcome to the world of equal rights. No one has the right to force their own beliefs on others who don’t share their faith.
anon and socalbride25, Miss Gingerbread has every right to post about this. If you don’t want to read about it, skip the post. I fail to see how this is different than any other bees who go against tradition (i.e. keeping their names, etc.)
Please remember that not everyone believes in God, and Miss Gingerbread’s arguments are for the legality of marriage, not to be recognized in a certain religion.
It hurts even to imagine how hurt I would be if I lived in a world where I couldn’t get married to the one I loved! I hope this is the first step toward equality for same-sex couples, and that you and Miss GB 2.0 can return to the US in the future if you like!
@socalbride25: We all understand that there is another side to this situation, that being said no one is forcing you to read Miss GB’s posts, that area about weddings, her wedding and other couple like her… if you don’t want to hear about a same-sex marriage don’t read her posts.
Weddingbee is a happy site and I say, if you can’t say something nice, don’t say anything at all.
Here here Socalbride25! I come here to read about weddings, NOT political agendas… and AliCherri1, I think you are completely incorrect, this is the very place to state an opinion when others are knocking those who would disagree with this ruling.
@AliCherri1:
i believe there was nothing rude in my statement…. yes weddingbee is a happy site, and i do like following along with GB wedding details, i just ask that she lay off the political agenda that’s all!
sorry for those of you who are misunderstanding the 2 of us, but i will say i am a very tolerant conservative, i have many gay friends, however i do deserve the right to speak up, just as many here have spoken up in favor, all i ask is to stop with the political banter.
i love my gay friends, yet i don’t have to agree with their relationship choices, but that doesn’t make me love them any less, just as i still enjoy miss GB’s wedding contributions, all i’m asking is to lay off the political part…. this is all said with a friendly smile =)
@anon:
I feel sad for you that you feel the way you do. I believe in God and I still believe that two people, regardless of gender should get married. You can’t help who you love. How would you like it if you lived in a world where you weren’t allowed to marry someone because of their gender, hair color, race, whatever it may be? How would you feel?
Besides, church and state should be separate. If you’re against marrying same sex then don’t marry someone of the same sex. It’s that simple. Stopping same sex marriage will NEVER stop same sex relationships, nor do I feel it’s anyone else’s business to stop it.
And as others said, no one is forcing you to read the posts. Just skip it. I belong to other wedding blog communities and they’re also rejoicing over California’s decision. No one has spoken out against it. I’m sure there are members who feel the way you do but they choose to skip it if they don’t want to read it.
I don’t come to Weddingbee for the political discussions and wish it could be focused on wedding planning, like it is supposed to be. Since it’s started, though, I thought I should weigh in as a California voter. Although I have many gay friends and think they are wonderful people, I believe in the sanctity of marriage the way God planned it for us—between a man and a woman.
I also believe in democracy. Just a few years ago, we (California voters) passed Prop 22 with an overwhelming majority of nearly two-thirds. 2/3 of CALIFORNIANS—a LOT of people! Yesterday the Supreme Court overturned that with a 4-3 vote. Regardless of the issue, I think it’s sad that four people could reverse the will of millions of voters. Justice Marvin Baxter, who actually agreed with many of the arguments of the majority, said in a dissent that the court overstepped its authority and that changes to marriage laws should be decided by the voters. Amen to that, and the voters already decided in March of 2000.
@octobee: But this is about weddings!
Arghh!
*brain breaks from the futility of arguing over the internet*
the whole point is we shouldn’t have to be forced to skip posts… i don’t want to turn this into an argument…. i hope people i understand where i’m coming from
@Hrrmm:
not about weddings… it’s about marriage there is a difference
Miss GB, it would make me very sad if you stopped posting about the more political side of same sex marriage. What I love about weddingbee is that, as a reader, I get to see what it is like to plan a wedding from a variety of different brides. Brides from different ages, nationalities, cultures, religions, and sexual orientations. I haven’t been reading weddingbee that long, but what I have read has deeply moved me. I’ve realized that even though all of these ladies are different, we all come together to plan, get excited about, and support each other through one of the most exciting events in our lives.
By blogging about the difficult struggle that same sex couples go through to get married, whether it be having a hard time finding supportive vendors or whether it be the current turmoil in the U.S. over same-sex marriage, you are giving straight brides a little slice of what it is like to be a same sex bride. From other bees I have gotten to see slices of what it is like to be an Asian bride, a Canadian bride, a interfaith bride, a non-religious bride… the list goes on. I truly believe it is the diversity of the different bees that keeps me coming back to weddingbee, and what makes weddingbee such an amazing resource for new brides.
If you left out the political posts, I think we would loose a large part of the emotional journey you are going through as you plan your wedding. Please keep sharing your amazing journey with us, and know that the majority of us bees love and support you and GB 2.0!
I’m glad to see Miss GB’s posts about this. I find it entirely hypocritical that anyone would want to read about Miss GB’s hunt for a dress and a venue but not about her struggle to have her “wedding” recognized as a “marriage.” The comments to the contrary take the “it’s not about the wedding, it’s about the marriage” words of reason and stand them on their head–I’m sure the Wedding Industrial Complex is proud of you!
Just a few decades ago a bride who was marrying a man of a different race would have faced all kinds of political and legal problems. Thankfully, Loving v. Virginia aboloished anti-miscegenation laws. Your Loving is coming, Miss GB! (And yes, anon and socal, I DID just equate you with the racism of the past because I strongly believe anti-homosexual bigotry is no different or any less despicable.)
If I see a blog about a sand ceremony or about anything wedding or marriage related that is of no interest to me, I skip it. If I see a giveaway for a hair piece or wedding planning software, items I don’t need or already have it, I skip it. If a topic you don’t like is posted, it’s cool to skip it. There are a lot of members who are for this post and support it. For those who don’t, that’s your opinion, but skip it. It’s that easy.
I’m flying home to California tomorrow to take care of some final wedding tasks, and I am SO proud to be returning there!! Congrats to all of the same-sex couples out there who simply want the same HUMAN rights that the rest of us take for granted. I will happily stand behind you in support of that right.
Weddingbee should be a place where we discuss wedding details, not political agendas. A couple of the other Bees have backgrounds in the political arena and I really respect that we have no idea what political parties they support. I don’t care what side people take with whatever issue—just don’t push your political opinion either way on Weddingbee; it’s just not the place for it. Keeping Weddingbee to wedding planning keeps it much more professional. And while I think Miss GB is a wedding planning genius, I’m surprised and disappointed that any Bee would use this site to further her own agenda.
edit above: I should have said “legalized racism of the past” or “racism of the past (and present)” because…..well, it’s not like we’ve really eradicated that problem either.
Are you freaking kidding that you want Miss GB to post about weddings, but NOT MARRIAGE? Are you out of your mind to not recognise that they are intimately connected and post-worthy?
also CaliBride08, since you’re such a big fan of democracy you must also know that your democratically elected officials voted for marriage equality TWICE, both time it was vetoed by your governor, who felt it’s constitutionality should be determined by the state Supreme Court. Which they have now done. Democracy in action, to protect the rights of all.
@anon: & @socalbride25: Everyone is entitled to their opinions. I know that not everyone shares mine and that’s fine. I’d love to not focus on politics and only focus on the fun stuff, like wedding favours and flowers, but unfortunately for same-sex couples, this political stuff IS a part of our wedding planning process.
@thriftsiren: Well said Thanks for your support!
Why does anyone thinkg Miss GB has an agenda? She’s just discussing a topic–period. Other bees have discussed non-wedding related topics too and I don’t remember any comments asking them to keep their thoughts to themself. Miss Shortcake just posted about mail order brides–did anyone ask her to keep quiet? Please don’t hide behind the word “agenda” when you really mean “opinion”.
And need to add that all of you saying this is too “political”… well , that’s great that you have the privilege to say that. For a whole lot of people, this is deeply personal and has nothing to do with political parties. For Miss GB, this is her ability to marry the person she loves. It meant immigrating. Planning weddings are about cultures, families, major religious issues, and I love reading about them all. It’s not like I’m so sensitive that I can’t bear to read about other people’s weddings- even when I don’t understand or agree with their decisions.
I am glad that we do have a same sex weddingbee blogger. There are a lot of wedding websites out there where all of featured couples in their 20s, marrying someone of the same race, opposite gender, looking like models. It’s rare to find a site that features photos of interracial couples, same sex couples, people older than 35, people with disabilities etc. Those couples are kept “under the table” as Miss GB put it in her photographer-interviewing post because the “regular couples” might be disuaded to pick that vendor. While weddingbee’s content is mostly traditional, I am pleased to see that the administrators are not censoring things that don’t fit the cookie-cutter traditional wedding image.
While I believe in the Bible and consider myself a Christian, I do not take the bible literally. I feel I must point out that the Levitcus 20 passage quoted above prohibiting gay male sex also prohibits the wearing mixed fibers. It was written at a certain time in history by people of a certain culture. Not to provoke further debate, but I want to point out that not all Christians interpret the Bible in the same way and I distrust those who claim to speak on God’s behalf to further their own fears and prejudices.
@laura: Ditto! I wish I could have expressed my opinion that well.
@Sakoro:
I wholeheartedly agree with you.
Miss GB–Thank you for your honesty and for showing people who “disagree with same-sex marriage” that it is not a “political agenda”. But people’s lives we are discussing…your life.
I believe in God. I believe that everyone has a right to his or her own opinion.
But I refuse to believe that God is bigot.
The God that I believe in created all in God’s own image. ALL. Gay, straight, black, white, male, female. God is all things, all variety of people, all at the same time. I believe it is a mystery we are not intended to understand all the time.
People here have said that the believe in a God of Love, but do not practice it. One of my favorite sayings as always been “If going to Church makes you a Christian, does going to the garage make you a car?”
There is more to faith than just saying it. Act how you believe your “God of Love” would…fairly, justly, and with love to all people.
This is a blog and bloggers are chosen to share their experiences. Miss GB is sharing her experience.
For those who disagree with her views, I don’t think you have to ignore these posts. I think you have every right to express your disagreement.
BUT, those same dissenters must understand that everyone else has the right to express their disagreement with you.
Knowledge of all points of view (hopefully) should spark a thoughtful discussion. This is the only way we make progress and come to a better understanding.
The beauty of free expression! 
Personally, Miss GB - I’m so glad you posted this topic. I have really enjoyed learning about your experiences. Please keep sharing with us.
If someone is looking to get involved and doesn’t know where to start, I highly recommend finding your local PFLAG chapter and starting there.
as a Los Angeles based wedding bee, i will hit the poles in November despite the fact that I never vote, to vote down this amendment.
“Please don’t hide behind the word “agenda” when you really mean “opinion”.
From one Laura (me ) to another Laura (the one who wrote the above line) You hit spot on what I was thinking and said it much better then I could have.
Bravo
@HCB: You’re right, I am sorry to suggest that anon or socalbride25 should not have used this as a place to voice their opinion and for that I am sorry.
Just to equal out the political debate… for those of you who would like to help protect marriage between a man and a woman by getting the new initiative passed in CA this November, here are a couple sites where YOU can donate to the campaign or get involved:
http://www.nationformarriage.org/site/c.omL2KeN0LzH/b.3836955/
http://www.protectmarriage.com/howtohelp.php
Miss Gingerbread.. I just wanted to let you know how much I appreciate your posts. They feel very personal and not overly political at all. They are some of the most interesting and emotionally stimulating posts I’ve ever read on weddingbee. Please keep it up.
To the Lauras, sorry for interchanging the word “opinion” with “agenda.” To me, it is the same when you have an outlet like this. So, I’ll try again.
Weddingbee should be a place where we discuss wedding details, not political opinions. A couple of the other Bees have backgrounds in the political arena and I really respect that we have no idea what political parties they support. I don’t care what side people take with whatever issue—just don’t push your political opinion either way on Weddingbee; it’s just not the place for it. Keeping Weddingbee to wedding planning keeps it much more professional. And while I think Miss GB is a wedding planning genius, I’m surprised and disappointed that any Bee would use this site to express her political opinions of any kind.
I would leave the same post if another Bee had written about the issue from the other side of the fence. My point is, simply, let’s be professional and keep it to wedding planning. Thanks girls
“The greatest ignorance is to reject something you know nothing about.”
Miss GB, I love that you’re here, blogging with intelligence and passion about your own wedding and the larger picture of same sex marriage. You’re an amazing addition to the hive, truly.
Thanks for the links Miss GB! Its one thing to say you support something, and its another to put your time, votes, and money where your mouth is! So I’m going to check out the sites now.
As for November, both Mr. Peng and I will be getting out the votes!!!
As for those who think that a post like this is a “political agenda…” Cant you see its very much about people being in love, and wanting to express their love in marriage? And really, isnt MARRIAGE what this website is really all about?
And, BTW, yesterday was a very historic day for MARRIAGE LAW in general, so to NOT discuss it would be weirder to me than actually discussing it.
I have to add this quote from Portia de Rossi, who is marrying her longtime girlfriend Ellen DeGeneres!!! Quote: “Love is the most personal of human emotions. I am deeply grateful to the State of California for allowing all of its citizens the right to express their love equally under the law.”
@FutureMrs09: As Ms. GB already said: “but unfortunately for same-sex couples, this political stuff IS a part of our wedding planning process.”
And as BRS said “For a whole lot of people, this is deeply personal and has nothing to do with political parties.”
We love you Ms GB. You’re perfect, don’t ever change
FutureMrs and all those who think this is somehow off topic… I like weddingbee because the posts are NOT all focused on wedding planning. Yes, there are plenty of posts on venues, shoes, invitations, etc., but Bees have previously blogged about religious and cultural issues, living together before marriage, changing their names, finances, and many more topics that are outside the narrow scope of “wedding planning”.
It is not fair to have a double standard and only hate in the comments when it is something you personally disagree with. Did all of those who think this inappropriate leave nasty comments when Radish posted about doing her taxes? Or when Kiwi posted about sleeping habits?
It is not like Miss GB is telling us what candidate she supports or anything. Gay marriage is a civil rights issue, not a political issue. Not everyone is Christian, guys… this is simply about the federal/state rights that come with marriage, and the separation of church and state means being recognized by the govt, not by your church or your God(s)/Goddess.
Miss GB: Thank you for posting about this. For far too many couples, marriage isn’t as easy as showing up at city hall for a marriage license.
I’m a huge ally and can’t wait to stand up a bridesmaid for two of my best friends next month. And I definitely can’t wait to do it again when they can make it legal.
I was very happy to hear of yesterday’s ruling, too. I remember going by City Hall in 2004 just to see the wonderful goings on and crying looking at an SF Chronicle gallery of same sex weddings with couples that were so happy.
As a Christian I feel compelled to reply to this post.
I agree with Miss GB that this is a part of her struggle of her wedding planning, and it is a very big issue and she should post about her struggles and give insight to people. I personally do not like the fact that she would encourage people to vote for something I do not believe in, but in the same respect it is because I would encourage people to vote the other way, and I kind of see it as free press. I think this struggle is a part of her marriage and wedding planning. It’s unavoidable.
I also just want to make it known that God is a God of love, and He is not a bigot, but you have to understand He still hates sin. As Guinness257 was saying, just because you say you’re a Christian doesn’t mean that you are one. The Bible explains who God is, and to not understand that He hates sin which includes homosexuality does not mean He hates His creation including Miss GB (& 2.0). People talk about ignorance, but there are a lot of ignorant people who do not know about the Bible well enough such as the comment about Leviticus and clothing (no offense taken hee hee) … you have to look at the big picture, and not take things out of context. As a Christian, you have to understand that we want people to understand God’s love, but there is also God’s wrath which go hand in hand. If your child does something wrong you wouldn’t let it go unpunished out of love for him, and to teach him what is right, for his benefit in the future. In the same way, people see Christians as only condemning, but it’s because of love (well, not all Christians do it out of love, when they should). I truly apologize for misgivings you have from Christians, but we’re not perfect just like everyone else, we’re human. I hope people will respect this post just as much as the next pro gay post. ^_^
mamamiya’s post just reminded me why i gave up the organized religion i was raised in and am happier for it.
I am also a very devout/practicing Presbyterian Christian and I am so happy that California is now legalizing same-sex marriages. As a person of color, I know that not everything historically “legal” is necessarily “right” - look at our history, people!
Someone above was completely correct when they said that this is a matter of privilege. Why should Christians decide what is right for others? If you are a Christian (as I am) then you have your own beliefs, but why should you legally be able to oppress others (institutionally) based on your beliefs? If there weren’t numerous legal privileges connected to legal marriages, then you might be able to say this is a separate issue - but that is untrue.
Ms. GB - as a Christian, I want to say how happy I am that you are on the weddingbee. When you posted your first post I showed my FI and said “Finally!” I think Mrs. Bee and her team were being very wise to choose you as a bee and you deserve to be here and post about anything you want! Of course this is related to wedding planning! As a Californian, I will be voting pro same-sex marriages in November. As a college professor I teach about systematic oppression/privilege in my classes and I can’t tell you how many students I run into who have problems with me talking about equality for everyone regardless of color, sexuality, religion, etc. They are always surprised when they learn I am Christian too - but I think it helps them realize that they can open their minds as well. Hopefully I can continue to open minds all the way up to November!
Good luck! we love you and this issue will definitely be in my prayers
First for those of you who keep saying these judges are legislating from the bench and over turning the will of the people please go back to your high school Goverment class and review the functions of our goverment branches! These judges did not “make law” what they did was go back and say that the laws your majority put in place were illegal under your own state constitution! In otherwords you are denying people rights without any legal backing. All the judical branch does is decide what laws are legal and which ones are not based on the consitition that is currently in place. This is one of those lovely checks and balances our founders put in place to ensure the crazies on either side of the aisle didnt run over the rights of the other half. If you don’t like the rules your state has then yes you should change your consitution so that you can then legally discriminate against people vs. illegally doing so like you are now!
Secondly YAY Miss Gingerbread for reminding everyone here that wedding planning doesnt just involve pretty stationary, rings and shoes. That this institution we call marriage has greater meaning and ramifications. Shame on those of you who tell her to just shut up about the politics. That’s easy to say when you get all the legal rights she wont the day you get married!
Also, for those of you who are against gay marriage. I respect your right to your opinion however do you not agree that all people deserve the same rights and freedoms?
If you do agree that all people should have equal rights then perhaps it is time to stop associating the Legal definition of Marriage with the Religious definition of Marriage. I say this as a practicing Christian. Would it not honestly make more sense to have all people gay or straight register for a “civil union ” that would be granted by the government? These legal civil unions would then give that couple all the rights we have come to expect with a marriage: immigration ability, taxes, medical benefits, decisions over your partner’s healthcare, etc. And if a couple also wanted to get Married in the eyes of God why could they then not still have an entirely separate Marriage ceremony that would be recognized by their church, synagogue, temple or whatever. Since there are indeed many churches in the Christian faith at least that are accepting of and embracing gay marriage, couples could get Married there if they choose and for those of you who don’t agree then you go to a church that says the same and your fine. Or do you disagree so much with two people of the same sex commiting their lives to each other that you truly do what to keep them second class citizens and not even allow them the legal rights you were already blessed with?
The government should have never been in the business of issuing “religious” marriages in the first place, their job is only to say yep you get the same rights as this couple over here. If the only reasons for not allowing gays marry are religious ones (which they seem to be), and they seem to interfere with the very clear anti-discrimination laws and ideals we as a people have set forth “All men are created equal (ring any bells?)” maybe it is time to separate the two things, because they are so divergent and contradictory to some people.
Why would this idea be so very bad? Most of the people I know who disagree with gay marriage are the same people who believe the government has no place in their lives. So why are you giving them power over what you consider a religious institution?
I should clarify that when I said not everything historically legal is right, I meant that our previous ban of same-sex marriages was not “right” - not the current legalization! Hopefully that made sense!
well first off, i’m atheist, and since i respect and honor christianity for christians, i would ask that they respect and honor the decision i have made for myself regarding my own spiritual path.
since i’m atheist, the “rules” of leviticus don’t mean anything to me. including rules saying not to eat shellfish, not to wear clothing made of mixed materials, saying that it’s okay to buy slaves, and so on and so forth. even if i were christian, i would find leviticus to be a terribly outdated and misguided book.
but i’m not. and i’m as much a citizen of this country as the next person who’s a christian, jew, muslim, buddhist, whatever. it’s not about politics, it’s about who i am. i happen to be a bisexual gal who’s married to a man, and since i don’t really have any option other than to accept heterosexual people as they are, i’d simply as they they do the same for me and for the homosexual folks out there. it’s really only fair. it’s not about religion, it’s not about politics, it’s about loving, accepting and SUPPORTING your neighbor for who they are and who they love.
Gaa sorry I was editing that down sorry it’s insanely long, I didnt mean to post it yet!
I agree it would be odd to see a weddingbee post about a political agenda.
So please, no posts about raising the capital gains tax or our strategy in Iraq.
But if there are a ballot initiative coming up for an amendment banning say, people under 50 from getting married, I’d imagine that there would be several posts regarding it on this site.
So it is appropriate to post about it here. As far as being impressed that you don’t know the political affiliation of other bees, well…I doubt Miss GB needed this post to lead you in the direction that she might, just might be in favor of same sex marriage.
At the same time, this is the exact post to put a response with a differing point of view. Putting it in yesterday’s post would have been tacky - today’s is fine, as long as everyone remains polite. IMO anyway.
But I would like to take this opportunity to say a little whoo-hoo for CA.
anon and socalbride25, if you don’t even have the courage to post under your REAL weddingbee names, then why reply at all?
NO ONE is asking or legislating to require churchs to perform same-sex weddings, but marriage is a LEGAL contract with MANY implications beyond the spiritual.
If you believe someone is not going to get into YOUR heaven for beleiving differently than you, fine. But you, and the government, have NO BUSINESS preventing the GBs and others from entering into a LEGAL contract.
For all you who have doubts about marriage and family rights for same sex couple, I encourage you to read this story about two Dutch men and the loving family they created out of children no one else wanted:
http://www.radionetherlands.nl/radioprogrammes/earthbeat/080424-eb-two-fathers
Here are the first two paragraphs to hopefully help people realize that viewpoints can be changed when you see beyond your own prejudices:
TWO FATHERS
Aad and Ron Dissel de Boo tell the story of how they once went to a conference in the USA to talk of their experiences in raising children. Before the spoke, a woman came up to them and told them forthrightly that she didn’t agree that homosexuals should be allowed to raise children, because it went against traditional family values.
And then they went on the podium and told their story. Later the same woman came to them in tears to apologise for what she had said earlier. “And then she wrote to us later,” says Ron laughing in his booming bass. “She said that she had our photo on a notice board in her office with a sign underneath it that read ‘they opened my heart and my eyes.”
PLEASE, I implore everyone to read this article. It is a wonderful illustration of the power of TRUE LOVE.
in God’s eyes, homosexuality is a sin - as is lying, stealing, murdering, etc - i, as a christian, am no less sinful than the person next to me. again, in God’s eyes, there are no varying degrees of sin. sin is sin. God tells us that we have NO right to judge others - that belongs to HIM and Him ALONE.
that being said, Miss GB, i don’t support or agree with how you live your life; however in the same way that i would hate to be judged for my sins i will not judge you for yours.
i do believe though that as i’ve broken God’s heart many times, angered Him and have had him lovingly rebuke me, His heart breaks to see how society has taken so many of His laws and far removed them from what He intended them to be and mean for us. yes, God is INDEED a God of love, but He is also one of justice and wrath. the point is that we ALL need to repent and pray - not just for ourselves, but most importantly for each other.
@socalbride25:
“not about weddings… it’s about marriage”
I’m trying to steer clear of the ethical debate here, but I just literally LAUGHED out loud when I saw this comment.
THIS is the problem with society. Last I checked, the MARRIAGE was more important than the WEDDING, and the two are without a doubt, extraordinarily connected. A wedding is not about a pretty white dress and gathering people together to celebrate you… a wedding is about MARRIAGE. I think we can all use a reminder about this fact on occasion.
What I think is a travesty is that judges overruled the VOTERS of California who VOTED in an democratic process to not legalize marriage for same-sex couples. It’s a dangerous precident to set, saying that you, as a judge/court can overrule what the people are voting for. Isn’t that how faschism works? Now, if the people VOTE for that right then implement it, but until then the courts can’t hijack what their opinion deems appropriate and overrule what the democratic process is there for. I think even one of the judges involved in the ruling is PRO-same sex marriage BUT she recognized that it was out of bounds for the court to overrule the voters and as such was in the minority to reject the ban.
Edit: I meant that she was in the minority by being FOR upholding the ban until it can democratically be achieved otherwise.
@socalbride25
You mean you never skip a post? Every post about shoes I skip because 90% of the shoes shown don’t come in my size.
*shakes her head* I don’t understand your position. The whole point of reading blogs and articles to find information. Whether the information is useful to you or not is irrelevant. You take the information and use it or not. You don’t care about this historic act, fine. Don’t think about it.
I feel this is exactly where this information should be and I am thrilled to have another place to read about it here. Miss GB - both of you, rock on!
Ok, well here goes nothin’-
To all my sisters in Christ who have been posting, I appreciate you bringing a different viewpoint to the table. However, I have a few questions for y’all to ponder. If you believe in the inerrancy of the Bible, then don’t you also believe that salvation rests not on deeds but on grace?
If so, then whether or not a person is gay or straight has no impact on their eternal dispensation. A sin is a sin is a sin. You sin, I sin, we all sin. At the end of the day, they’re interchangeable. And I don’t see people getting fired up about other posts that reference other sins. So why this?
If we are to be all things to all people in order to share the gospel effectively, I would ask you to consider the impact of your words and how they are perceived and the resulting impact that would have on the gospel message. I’m not saying that you have to lie, or edit Biblical truth, but just that you need to be ‘shrewd as snakes and innocent as doves’ when it comes to how you share your faith.
Before you post, stop, pray and consider whether you genuinely feel led to “speak Truth” in this manner or if you are merely trying to stir up controversy and be “right.”
pancy, Bridediy, beanchar and julieulie, a HUGE 2 2 2 2 2!! Thank you so much. I’ve been sitting and stewing through a late lunch over some of the posts above, and y’all responded much more eloquently and cogently than I possibly could have. So thank you for making all those points . . . I agree wholeheartedly.
I will be donating to NCLR to help prevent this November ballot initiative from passing. Many discriminatory and oppressive laws have been on the books of this country since its founding, and it would be despicable to write discrimination and violation of equal legal rights into the California Constitution. I hope most of the commenters on this and other posts would be grievously troubled by an amendment to the California Constitution or U.S. Constitution that banned any African-American or Latino-American from teaching public school. (Or mandated separate schools for African-American children. Or mandated separate schools for women. Or barred any woman from owning property in her own name. Or barred every woman from practicing medicine. . . . I can go on and on.)
Katie, I can see your point. However it is presisely this situation that is why we have the checks and balences in our government that we do. The will of the majority is not always “right” and there has to be someone there looking out for the minority. It was once the will of the majority for women not to vote (please note that scripture verses were also used during that time to “prove” why women should not vote) as well as prohibit the races to intermarry and to segregate our school system. Someone has to be looking out for all our citizens, not just the ones in the majority.
I just have to chime in to say something about the popular vote. Consider that CA was the first state to legalize interracial marriage in 1948 with a Supreme Court ruling. That was not the popular opinion of the day. A 1958 Gallup poll showed that 96 percent of white Americans dissapproved of interracial marriage. If we left interracial marriage up to the popular vote, you can see how that would have gone.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anti-miscegenation_laws
Thanks Amy!
Equally well said I might add. And a whole lot better spelled than mine LOL
first off i need to apologize if my post came off as i was condemning Miss GB.. i am not, its not my place to judge anyone. i was just saying what is on my heart. Miss GB- I am not judging what you do because that’s not my job. I was merely stating how i feel on the topic you posted on
and to ChristineJR:
God will forgive us of our sins because He is a God of grace and mercy.. there is nothing we can ever do to be worthy of His great love. At the same time- if we continue to sin there are consequences for that. My intention in posting was not to be right because I am the furthest thing from right- my righteousness is not my own but that which I have through Christ. Of course you know all this and while I appreciate your advice, and when i did post my earlier comment, it was because when i read Miss GB’s post i felt led to post.
For everyone else reading this whether we have the same opinions or not I just want to say this: God is a God of love. He does not stop loving you based on your sexual orientation or anything that you have done or haven’t done. that is the beauty of His love- It is never ending.
Again I apologize for any of you who feel that my post was out of line, as someone stated earlier no one is perfect- I was just saying what i felt was in my heart, which i have the right to do.
gay marriage is a human right and it is a civil right. civil rights are about a majority oppressing a minority so that is why a popular vote will not work. as GB pointed out, this is the same way it played out in the black civil rights movement.
To Katie (#67): By your completely ridiculous “logic,” courts should not overrule voters even if the voters were to decide that slavery should again be legal! Because, hey, the voters wanted slavery so the court shouldn’t mess with the will of the people! Do you see how preposterous that is!?!
Like a previous poster said (who, like me, must also be a lawyer), our government operates on a system of checks and balances, and the court had every right to decide this case the way it did.
To MsGB: Yay! I grew up in California, and am so happy the judges got this decision right. My FI and I feel so strongly that same-sex couples be allowed to marry.
Oh, and I’m also a Catholic, too! And there’s no way I would ever believe that God - or any god - would ever want to prevent two people who love each other from marrying.
Seriously, people, look at what has happened in China and Myanmar this past week. Don’t you think “God” has a little more on his mind than keeping people who love each other apart?
I love you Miss Gingerbread!
And so does Jesus!
:hug:
:Hug:
(the capital H hug was from Him… =P)
Color me misguided, but how DOESN’T this have to do with wedding planning? Just because it isn’t about shoes, a dress, or cake tasting, I think it has everything to do with how a wedding could even happen.
We all did a happy dance in the office in your (and everybody else’s) honor yesterday Miss GB!
And GREAT JOB to almost all the commenters here - you have stopped and thought, and almost everysingle opinion and viewpoint, both pro and con, have been well thought out and expressed. What a great place for a forum.
WOW! First it is so nice to see all the positive posts. I know it means alot to me and my wife. I know I am preaching to the choir when I tell you Miss GB that you are in the right and to keep it up. For those who just don’t get it I will try to explain it in plain and simple words. You have the luxury of having heterosexual privilege and only be concentrate on the fun part of planning a wedding, while the biggest worry you may have to decide is what your escort cards will look like and whether to have chivari chairs or not. Gay brides and grooms do not have that luxury. Here is the list of things I had to worry about, will my family come to my wedding?, will I face blatent discrimination with vendors?, will my marriage be legal in the future?, will I be safe while on my honeymoon?, will I be safe while taking pictures in a public space on my wedding day? and that is just to begin the list I could go on and on. To say that GB post(s) are not about wedding planning is just so belittling of the struggles that gbltiq people face in every aspect of wedding planning.
A couple more things, first you can not really “love” your gay friends and want them to be treated as second class citizens. Don’t fool yourself, you are a bigot, you are not fooling any of us.
A thought, if you feel like you need to create an alternative name to post your hate well all I have to say is that there is a reason the klu klux klan wear hoods.
Finally for those who fall back on the fact that the “people” have spoken with thier votes and that should be followed. Just because the majority belives something does not make it right. Should we have allowed the german people to vote if the holocaust should happen, if slavery be abolished, if japanese should be interned? Ok so now I am just ranting. Just for the record I love the gocco posts, the chivari chair posts, and the which flowers should i choose posts. But life like wedding planning if full of the good the bad and the ugly. I love the fact that miss gb and the rest of the bees struggle with all of this on this site it makes it all more real and it makes this site all the more worth reading.
I have to say, I am kind of baffled by all the people who are hiding behind the “this site is about weddings, not about marriage” excuse. Isn’t the goal in planning a wedding that it culminates in MARRIAGE?
As for people who are accusing Miss GB of getting political, this is a forum for people to share their personal wedding experience and this is part of her wedding experience. Personally, I think she has been very respectful of the opposition in this situation as I would hazard to guess that many of us would react with a lot more anger if our relationships with our significant others were called into question like this.
One of my attendants, my best man, is gay and it does my heart good to know that, when wants to marry his boyfriend, he can here in Canada.
Rock on Miss GB and all the other same sex couples! We love you!
Dear Ms. GB,
I think both your opinion *and* your agenda are hot, as well as your pre-wife’s suit and that great aquamarine ring. And your officiant. Super hot! Hot, great, perfect, and sexy! Meant for girl-marriage and lady-love and same-sex-parenthood and being woman-hot.
Oh no, now some gay bride is being inappropriate! I apologize for doing it on your bee blog, GB, delete me at will. But it’s Friday, so *I’ll* be the drunk uncle. DID you and 2.0 have a bet about how long it would take someone to write the word LEVITICUS? So many weeks of choosing the right words and staying up-beat and offering well-documented counterpoints must be wearing you out cause YOU, GB! YOU! Are doing a bang-up job of being gay ambassador. So, I apologize for blowing the sweet, kind, patient, understanding vibe you’ve got going here but:
ARE YOU KIDDING ME? My anti-gay brides, with your FAKE humility, and thinly veiled SELF-RIGHTEOUSNESS. How DARE you ANONYMOUSLY compare being gay to murder on the WEDDING BLOG of a complete stranger? Have you lost your SAVED mind? Hit your SCRIPTURE head? OH MY H-E-DOUBLE-HOCKEY-STICKS! All of that fake self-effacing “I’m a sinner too”, LAMENESS makes me wanna BARF. Go be shrewd as a snake somewhere else with your absolutely, EVIL-spirited, UNSOLICTED, inappropriate, NONSENSE!
haha. I heart ChristineJR, Amy H., sam, E, Miss Hummngbird and so many others who posted I was born and raised in cali but when my FI and I visited Toronto, Canada two years ago we agreed that if we were ever to live anywhere else in the world (other than Hawaii - his birthplace) Toronto would be it. It just FEELS different and my friends from there are definitely more laid back and “real” - much love to all the Canadians out there!
There is a lot of great and thoughtful commentary here!
I realize this is a controversial topic, and not everyone agrees. The one thing we ask is that we all refrain from personal attacks. Whether or not you support gay marriage or not, please be respectful towards each other. I am referring to commenters on both side of the fence here, so definitely not taking sides.
Thanks!
Oh my goodness such a fight! Honestly, I believe that yes, this is a wedding blog. But this has a lot to do with your wedding, and besides that so many wedding blogs incorporate political ideas - haven’t we seen posts about human trafficking here (specifically about mailorder brides) and in other wedding blogs? About domestic violence, crimes against women and families? Are these not political posts? If those brides prefer that they not read about politics, I hope they object to those posts as well because it seems only fair. Miss GB, I know you are aware that people will disagree with your posts but I am sorry people have to fight over it in your comments and I am glad you continue to post. I, for one, want to see EVERYONE’S wedding plans and all they wish to say about them because it is a happy and wonderful time for ALL of us.
Oh and we will be adding donations for marriage equality to our registry! I can’t remember when I got the idea but something tells me it was you who inspired it
I can’t tell you how thrilled I was this morning when I heard the good news my first thought was of Miss GB & GB2.0.
There are certain subjects where my opinion is static & will never be swayed by anyone else’s argument regardless of how well spoken, well cited, or passionate. Just as there are people who disagree with my opinion that will never be swayed by my arguments or counterpoints. I don’t see the value of trying to censor someone from voicing their values or opinions because in the end…you’re mind’s made up & gosh darn it so is mine. If you hate a particular post, skip it. No harm done. Afterall, maybe the next one will pique your interest and save you some dough, some sanity, or some time.
Live & let live. Love & let love. Marry & let marry.
Yay for Weddingbee, California, and Miss GB & GB2.0…and oh yea, love.
Yikes…hot post. Can I just say Miss GB I really appreciate how open you are to letting people express their opinion on both sides…it’d be easy for you to jump in but I like that you’re just letting this all play out. I like that both sides feel free to express themselves. It’s a healthy discussion.
Anywho…i was browsing videography sites and saw this sweet video of a two bride wedding and thought of you. And appropriatley enough for today its from Cali!
http://www.blissvideoproductions.com/video/romantic.html
I have to say I believe church and state should be separated- I believe that “marriage” is more of a religious term and “civil union” would be an appropriate government counter part. So I vote, civil unions for ALL (straight AND gay couples) and leave it to the churches whether they’re gonna bind the marriage in the eyes of God. I don’t see any reason why gay couples shouldn’t receive the same rights as “coupled” US citizens as the rest of us- I mean, we have benefits for joined couples for a reason- it helps the economy which is good for everyone. There will always be people who disapprove of some types of marriage, I’m just saying we call it civil union for all and leave the religious terms out of it. Maybe “marriage” is penned by the bible as man and woman- but who can argue with “civil union”. I’d be down anyways =)
Well said Kaleigh!