Would You Get One?
August 21st, 2008 @ 9:29 am by Mrs. Pinot Noir
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While prenuptial agreements used to be limited to celebrities and the wealthy, they are becoming quite a common practice today. In fact, the number of couples seeking prenups has risen 57% in the last five years. According to this article from Smart Money, more and more adults today are getting prenups. As people marry older, they have established their careers and have a good financial history. They might own real estate, have financial investments, or contributed significantly to a retirement fund. Interestingly, more and more of the people requesting the prenups are women rather than men. Also, some couples choose to get prenup not because of wealth but because of debt. Today’s debt ridden society is making it more and more likely for one person in the relationship brings in a significant amount of debt.
Prenuptial agreements are about the most unromantic part of wedding planning.
Who wants to think about divorce while you are in the middle of planning for your wedding day? Some might argue that getting a prenup is the first step in the wrong direction—if you think you might get divorced, why would you get married? And if think you won’t divorce, then why would you get a prenup?
On the other hand, some couples view it like an insurance policy. It protects everything in the event of a worst case scenario (i.e. divorce). You don’t get car insurance because you plan to be in an accident. Additionally, since the number one issue couples fight about is money, a prenup can bring to the forefront financial issues such as debt, property, retirement, etc. It allows/forces you to talk openly about your expectations and reduces the possibility of future conflicts and misunderstandings.
Michelle Andrews of Smart Money suggests considering a prenup if you have much greater assets or earn far more than your partner, your partner has substantial debt, you have children from a previous relationship, you own part or all of a business, or you plan to put your partner through school.
So hive, what do you think about prenups? Good or bad? Would you/did you get one?
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35 Responses to “Would You Get One?”
It’s a tough thing to talk about, because like you said, some people view it as planning for divorce. However, I am already established in my life, and the debt I do have (school loans) is my own. I think prenups can be a good thing to have!
I’m Catholic and our priest listed a few different things that would make the marriage invalid (if you are secretly a drug addict, if you are currently married to someone else, etc.) and one of the things on the list was having a pre-nup. I think it is against the Catholic Church to have one??
Divorce is only one of the things that can make a pre-nup come into effect. Of course, all of the other ones suck too, like death! In our state if you don’t have a will then everything goes to the spouse and even if you have a will, the spouse can protest it. We didn’t get one to protect ourselves, we got it to protect my family business. It wasn’t an option since it was a condition of our stockholders agreement.
Your comparing a pre-nup to car insurance is perhaps the best one I’ve heard. We have car insurance, flood insurance, fire insurance, renters insurance, life insurance, etc. All b/c in the event that something happens we’re protected. But at the same time this isn’t an auto accident where you’re hit by a perfect stranger. You know your fiance/spouse intimately. You should know what financial situation they are in. If there is a real risk to your financial security because of their habits, I really feel like this needs to be addressed before the marriage.
My feeling about a pre-nup is that hopefully you shouldn’t need one. While you don’t want to think about divorce while planning a wedding, it does in fact happen. Signing one is almost like saying that you don’t trust your significant other to act maturely and fairly when dividing the assets. I think it also shows you how you view your possessions. Even after marriage are they “yours and mine” or “ours?”
I didn’t even think about asking my husband to sign a pre-nup. Nor would I have signed one myself. When we married, everything became ours. The money I make, the money he makes, it’s ours. The debt we each had, we shoulder together. B/c we’re a team. Some women might thing that this view is extremely backwards. I guess I don’t see a need for a pre-nup.
Many Orthodox Jewish rabbis will not officiate at a wedding where the couple has not signed a pre-nup.
In Jewish tradition a divorce can only happen if the man gives his wife the divorce document, so these pre-nups stipulate that in the event of a civil divorce, the man must give his wife a Jewish divorce document or pay a fine every single day. The reason being that a man may remarry without a divorce (ancient loophole) but the woman remains in limbo. These pre-nups are written to be actionable by US law, and are very common now.
I know plenty of people who started their life together as a ‘team’, a mature perfect couple, in it til death and 5, 10, 20 years down the road they are nit picking over possessions, debt etc. in a nasty divorce battle. Divorce is a reality, sadly it’s more a reality that comes to fruition these days than marriages. In most cases divorce is a very emotionally charged event - even if you say you are the most calm, mature person there is no guarantee how you will feel and react. I personally don’t see a pre-nup as a trust issue, I see it as a reality to protect your well-being in a worst case scenario.
We have one and think that if you think you are never going to get divorce then it doesn’t matter, but it does get you thinking about how to save for retirement, babies, education, ect.
Plus if you think that all should be 50/50 if you ever split then a pre-nup will let you say that without having to involve lawyers in the end.
I really can’t seem to get my mind around why some people get so offended by the idea of a prenup. To me, it’s something that should be approached from a strictly practical point-of-view, and all emotions should be removed from the process — much like a will.
Obviously no one goes into a marriage thinking it’s going to end in divorce, but the sad fact is that a lot of marriages do and, in my opinion, it’s better to be prepared.
Nope, hate the pre-nup.
Ok, I know everybody dissagrees, and maybe for some people this is the right thing to do. But not for me. I waited until I found the right man, we have discussed all financial issues, and if he moves out to live in the garage we will still be married. End of story.
I think you have to have faith that your marriage will last, endure, and change according to each of you over your lifetime. If you lack that faith it doesn’t help the marriage stick.
But of course, that is just me.
I know the law in the US are different but in South Africa I think it is absolutely essential. Here, if you don’t sign a pre-nup then you are automatically married in community of property (ie. all assets and liaibilities are shared). That means if my husband starts a business that goes badly, creditors could come and claim assets that are in my name too. Also, when one party dies, all bank accounts would be automatically frozen until the estate is wound up.
For my husband and I it was a no-brainer to get a pre-nup and be married out of community of property (assets and liabilities are in your own names, or joint if bought together) - purely from the point of view of protecting our financially stability as a couple.
You should always start a task with the “end in mind”. If the end is option of divorce, then get a prenup; if the end is til death do us part then there should be no reason for a prenup. Marriage to us is together-forever. No pre-nup necessary. That is easy-peasy. Everyone’s situation will vary though.
I have never found anything wrong with prenups. Even if the two of you are happy together forever, whats the worst thing that could happen if you have one? You never need it? I actually think there is something fishy about people who vehemently oppose prenups. I am getting married this fall with the idea that divorce is not an option. Will I have a prenup? You betcha.
I agree with hergreenapples. A prenup doesn’t have to be about just protecting your money. Divorcing couples are emotional, hurt, and often bitter. Divorce can be abosolute torture. Why torture yourself? Settle that stuff now when nobody’s mad and when everyone’s willing to be reasonable.
Thank you for posting this! I am prenup supporter. It’s always difficult to explain to friends (my family is with me on this one) that a pre-nup doesn’t mean I’m contemplating divorce, I’m just being prepared and ready because you can never predict what will happen in 10, 20, 60 years. I’m a realist. And you can’t always predict peoples actions. I just want to be sure that if anything were to happen between hubby and I that I would leave with what I came into the relationship with. I bought our current house before we were even engaged, I’ve been saving for my retirement since I was 20 and I have great credit; I am the bread winner. Obviously debts and materialist stuff obtained after our marrige would get split, but I would like the security of knowing that my retirement money and the money I put into our house before marriage is still mine. Soon to be hubby has a son, so I’m sure he’ll want to put in stipulations also.
My Aunt went through a divorce a few years ago after 18 years of marriage. She was the bread winner. Her ex-husband took her for alimony and she also had to buy him out on their house; they still are paying on it. So after 10 years of paying a mortgage she has to start all over again, on the same house.
No one I know gets married with the intent of getting divorced, but wouldn’t you rather be safe than sorry?
We will not be getting one.
For some people they make sense. (Especially if one has a large inheritance factor or something to that effect.) But for those of us entering into marriage as equals potentially bringing in a pretty even amount, AND planning on til death to us part, I am not sure I think its a good thing. I like the insurance analogy, but I feel the “planning for the worst” in this case is death, and thats not a prenup but life insurance and a will.
Thats just my opinion.
Hooray RKM. You practically never see this brought up - but I have lots of friends with prenups, and it has nothing to do with eventual divorce and everything to do with liability. If you or your partner works in a field where you might be likely to be sued, it is only smart to have your spouse as sole owner of what would otherwise be your joint assets. Otherwise you could easily lose your house, your retirement funds, etc. In this eventuality, the prenup is primarily of value if you don’t divorce!!
It’s also an issue where one or both spouses already have children. For instance, DH has two - they both live with us. He makes good money, as do I, but I also own income producing property. That happens to have been left to me by my family - and I don’t want it to automatically go to him or to his kids if something happens to me. Not that they won’t get anything - but there is no reason they should automatically get it all, as opposed to some of it going to my sister. A prenup allows me to do whatever I would like in my will - in a manner that can’t be contested by my husband or his children after my death.
FMIL wants us to get one. we discussed it, neither of us has any thing of real worth and our debt is about equal. we were able to discuss it calmly and maturely, but in the end we both determined we could do without the pre-nup.
If either of us was coming into the marriage with significantly more wealth, debt or business connections than the other, I would want one. If either of us worked in a field where legal action was possible (medical, etc), then I would want one. Since none of those applies, we’re probably going to skip it.
I know that in France it’s a lot more common and we are mostly Catholic. I guess it’s because a legal marriage in France is the one in front of the Mayor, nothing else.
I’m pretty sure my parents signed one (Contrat de Mariage) and it has to be done in front of a notary.
This agreement not only tells who owns what in the case of a divorce but also throughout the marriage. So I guess because it’s not just about divorce it’s seen more positively.
I was thinking of getting one, but then we got married quickly and I kind of forgot about it.
Here is what I found on wikipedia about the system in my country:
“Many countries, including Canada (Quebec), France, Italy, and Germany, have matrimonial regimes, in addition to, or some cases, in lieu of prenups. In these countries, a couple elects to own property under a separate or shared property, either by meeting with a notary or by signing the agreement in front of the public officer that marries them. Some countries have signed on to the Hague Convention on Marital Regimes. These act much like prenups by allowing the parties to own property either separately or jointly.”
Thank you for this post, this topic is usually completely skipped over…who wants to talk about pre-nups when you are trying to plan a wedding right?! Well my FFIL wants us to get one b/c of their family business. I am COMPLETELY against them. I plan on being married til death do us part and to sign one of these is to say we don’t trust each other. However, FFIL has gone so far as to say that his children are out of the company (right now they are all stockholders) if they do not get pre-nups. So we will probably have to get one….ugh!
We are planning on one (my idea) which didn’t go over so well at first. The compromise is that in that document it has to state as one of the conditions that I am not allowed to divorce him- hahaha.
As a soon-to-be-lawyer, I must say that if you’re entering into a marriage with assets, you need a pre-nup. In my opinion, it just makes good sense to protect your assets. You wouldn’t make a big purchase without getting a receipt, and as purely a legal matter, I think the pre-nup is the same thing. For example, those with family businesses would need one, and most parents would probably insist on it. I know it’s a hard subject to approach, but it’s important. Personally, I have zero assets, so it’s not necessary, but pre-nups are similar to a Will. Yes, it’s difficult to think you will die, but you have to prepare for it, because when nasty things happen like death and divorce, nasty people come out of the woodwork.
They’re not my style, but they make sense for many people if they have very disparate financial situations. My husband wanted one, but after we talked about it, he realized that what he wanted was pretty much standard family law where we live, so we didn’t bother.
I guess one of the good things about being broke when we got married is that we did not really have to worry about a prenup. There was no point to formally stating that $50 and a pair of tennis shoes were his and I got to keep my curling iron and stock pot. Ok, so it wasn’t quite that bad but really…we started out with very little and everything we have acquired has been after the wedding when it falls under marital property laws anyway. Ahhh, the benefits of being poor. 
@Becky: You make a great point Becky! We really don’t know what will happen in 10 or 20 years.
@MrsFroggy: It is interesting to hear about how outher countries and cultures deal with this issue! Thanks for sharing.
I can see why they’re important and if Mr. GB wanted one, I would have been ok with it. But he’s like you said, doesn’t want to think about divorce. We both talked about it, and we know that if things ended, neither of us would be the type to bleed the other dry.
We have one. We have assets, debts, a business, inheritance, all of which we wanted to have a plan for. The reason for the prenup wasn’t distrust, it was respect. What better moment is there for deciding about these issues than when we are madly in love and thinking about our future together? In fact, I changed several parts of the prenup in his favor because I thought it was more fair.
If I thought I was going to get a divorce, I wouldn’t have gotten married. But planning for an unfortunate event isn’t what makes it happen. And they do happen…they will happen to more than half of the people on this board.
Divorces suck. I hope and plan to never have to experience one. But if it does happen, at least we’ve already worked this part out while we love each other. And everything we make from here on out is “ours”.
BTW: if you stand to inherit money, that is also an asset you need to protect. Even if you have no money now, a prenup might be a good idea for you.
Hear, hear to Miss Coconut and MissBanana. Agreed.
shanny, you’ll obviously be involving a lawyer, but my understanding is that clauses like that could make your prenup invalid. Prenups for Lovers is a pretty interesting book, especially if you’re on the fences.
The thing I find upsetting about these conversations is the implication that anyone signing a prenup is “planning on divorcing”. I don’t plan on getting a divorce, and I don’t think anyone getting married does, but it makes sense for a lot of couples to prepare for the worst.
I read somewhere (Carolyn Hax, maybe?) the idea that you shouldn’t marry anyone that you don’t think you would divorce well. I’m butchering the language, but the sentiment was that if you don’t think you can treat each other with respect when you’re at your lowest, then you should take a second look.
Thanks for bringing up an important topic. FI and I are just starting out in our careers so it’s not an issue for us, but I’d be happy to sign one if it was. I wouldn’t take it personally. If I stood to inherit a lot of money from my family I’d definitely want one. I actually see that as very basic respect for your family and their hard earned wealth.
Most couples start out starry eyed, in love and with the firm belief that things would never turn *that* sour. But it happens, and often. Sorry to be a downer, but half of the women you see excitedly posting on here about their marriages will go through a divorce in coming years. You simply don’t know what the future will hold. It’s scary - truly scary - to witness how divorce can turn otherwise good people. And of course you can’t even imagine it now - I know I can’t! It’s still just as likely to happen though.
All that said, the best offense is a good defense: FI and I enjoy harmonious financial goals, attitudes and habits and I’d seriously think twice about marrying him if we didn’t.
@Becky:
Actually, the Ketubah *is* a prenup itself - an agreement stating what the wife will receive upon divorce. So, to correct you, every orthodox rabbi will insist that a couple have a prenup, BUT no orthodox rabbis will marry a couple that attempts to bring a supervening civil prenuptial agreement that goes against the Ketubah.
Most couples don’t realize this about the Ketubah, and instead write their own English versions consisting of flowery promises of love, etc…
My parents had a very nasty divorce, and while I feel I’ve worked hard to build a stable, mature relationship over the years with my partner, I don’t believe in ignoring the worst-case scenario.
Neither of us have many assets now. We’re both killing off our school loans (we applied and went to grad school together). So I think he’ll be surprised when I bring it the idea of a pre-nup.
The primary reason I’d want it is that (I hear) you can stipulate within the contract that you as a couple must seek counseling together before either party files for divorce. Obviously, you can’t FORCE anyone to reconcile, but I like the idea of very specifically committing to steps you will take to make sure *neither party walks away without trying to make it work*.
(I’d also consider some economic stipulations- HE may inherit some money and …I and I might want to leave the workforce for a while…. I’d like to make sure that we’re both protected).
Final thought: I certainly wished my parents had signed one when they both were at a point when they wanted the best for each other.
Just a thought, if you truly believe a marriage is until death…meaning you are willing to work through whatever lays ahead, is a prenup like having auto insurance, or more like having hurricane insurance in the Midwest?
I’m not saying I disagree with prenups completely, but I think if divorce is not an option, than a prenup shouldn’t be looked at as insurance in case it happens. If it is viewed as divorce-insurance, then you obviously feel divorce may be an option down the road.
Mr. Avocado as adamant about it when we started dating, and I hated the idea when we first started dating. It’s funny, because after we had been dating for a long time, I realized that I would do it if he wanted me too, and he realized he wouldn’t do it if I didn’t want to. Both of us realized that we are willing to compromise for the other person, and we hope that the attitude continues throughout our relationship. Hopefully that compromising attitude will keep us together forever!
Mrs. Pinot Noir, New York/Napa Valley
Age and Occupation: 24, Health Educator
Fiance's Age and Occupation: 31, Market Researcher
Engagement Date: November 10, 2007
Wedding Date: October, 2008
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About Me: I am a Minnesota raised, NYC transplant planning a destination wedding in Napa. I'm balancing my love for the environment and my hubby-to-be's love for tradition to create our "green wedding in disguise." Our wedding will include local food and wine, antique touches and lots of love and laughter. When wedding planning isn't taking up my free time (and money) I love to read, cook, workout, watch baseball and travel! Follow along in my adventure as I attempt to plan an eco-friendly and socially responsible wedding (with eco-oblivious Mr. Pinot Noir).
I see nothing wrong with them. I know plenty of people that have them for the exact reasons you named. Most have them because of trust funds, family businesses etc. and it doesn’t bother their partners at all. I feel like if you are truly in the relationship for all the right reasons, you should welcome the chance to make sure your SO in comfortable with how things are set up. Most I’ve seen also have special clauses related to children, length of marriage etc. My best friend married into a very very wealthy local family who own a number of large (international) companies and she signed one. That same day, they also drew up and signed wills leaving all his assets to her, etc. as well. She left him her car! It’s too funny. Now, they’ve been married for 15 years now and have two kids and trying for a third, so I think it worked out!