Rock and Roles
September 12th, 2008 @ 8:35 am by Miss Sweet Tea
A funny thing happened at the video store last night, when Mr. ST and I went to check out Season 2 of The Office (heart heart Jim + Pam). I brought the video and my membership card up to the counter, and when it was time to pay, Mr. ST busted out his credit card. We switch off paying for things like videos, and it was his turn. As Mr. ST was signing the credit card slip, the employee, a college-aged guy, started joking around with Mr. ST, saying: “So you’re only good for paying up, right?” He continued on, and relayed his own story of being ‘used’ by his own fiancée, who always expects him to pay for dinners and dates. Um, what?
Just a short while ago, I probably would have laid into the guy for being so sexist and would not have backed down. I’d like to think that I still have my feminist principles intact, and that maybe yelling at a random store employee wasn’t worth my time but… but… I’m still darn mad he could make such comments, especially about a woman he was marrying, or heck, about me!The thing is, that wasn’t the first time I’d heard comments in the same vein. When I first started announcing our engagement, it was usually positive congratulations, but I also heard things like, “another one bites the dust,” or, “but I thought you were a feminist?” I even had heard that it “must be nice to be taken care of.” It’s as if somehow as soon as you get engaged, you’re just bound to be subservient to your husband (because it’s usually assumed a girl is getting married to a boy and not to another woman), and you lose all of your independence and personal identity… oh, and the ability to pay your own way for things.
Now, all serious relationships involve compromise and life changes. So yes—you may not go out with your girlfriends as often to the clubs because you’d rather stay home watching bad TV with your sweetie. Or, maybe you let your honey pay for a dinner out or for groceries because you’re running low on funds, or just because he or she wants to treat you. Does that make you any less independent, or if you identify as such, any less a feminist?
I know that my feminist credibility (not to mention queer credibility!) has been challenged by others now that I am ‘biting the dust’ so to speak, and especially now that I’m in the throes of wedding planning. I must say that balancing staying true to my principles, but not wasting time on yelling at random strangers, has definitely been helpful in developing tactics for productive feminist organizing and engagement. But geesh—it sure does make my blood boil!
What’s the craziest stereotype about engaged or married life that you’ve heard, and how do you deal with hearing sexist assumptions about women’s gender roles?
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39 Responses to “Rock and Roles”
When I was pregnant I often didn’t carry my purse so this kind of thing came up often. First of all, we are married so the money all comes from the same account no matter who lays the card down. Second, it’s none of their business.
When pregnant I was a bit more vocal about my irritation. I’ve told people that we agreed that one of us would make babies while the other made money. He got the easier job. I also told someone that after the baby was born and he could carry her, I’d start paying again. Then the one that was a little over the top - He’s the one who knocked me up, so it’s only right he should pay for it.
I am so glad you posted this! Pat yourself on the back for being the bigger person (as my mom would say)!
I recently went to dinner with my fiance and when the check came and I got out my credit card to pay the bill (we too take turns paying - and it was mine), our server said, “Wow, you’re paying?” As in emphasis on the “you’re” and wide eyed shocked directed towards me! Apparently to him I shouldn’t be paying our check because I’m female. I was so offended!
The following are some of the actual responses I’ve heard from people after they learned that I will not be changing my last name.
“How modern of you!”
“What does your FH think about that?”
“But won’t your (future) children be confused if you don’t have the same last name as their mother?”
My favorite response occurred at work. One of my patients asked what my new name will be. Tired of answering this question, I responded, “Ms. res112.”
To which she replied, “Your fiance has the same last name as you?”
One person actually told me that once we are married I need to have dinner made each night when he arrives home after work, a beer ready for him, and then cater to him as he sits on the couch all night because he has been working all day. Are you kidding me?!! We both work the same hours! We make the exact same salary! Why in the hell would I have to cater to him? I am all about 50/50, we plan to share the household chores evenly. Thank God the FI sees my point on this one.
I haven’t heard any real stereotypes but I did want to comment on the guy claiming he felt “used”.
I don’t know about in other peoples relationships, but I know in my own that I do expect my man to pay occasionally out of appreciation for everything I do for him. We both work full-time but I also do all of the cooking, cleaning, grocery shopping, laundry, etc. He’s in charge of feeding our cats, taking out the garbage, and doing the occasional dishes. He would probably do more, but I’m anal about certain things and he probably wouldn’t do it “my way”. 
So I find its only right that he should take me out every once in awhile. I’m not saying that I dont pay, but the percentage is probably more 70-30. It just makes me wonder what that guy probably wasn’t taking into consideration.
“Congrats on the wedding. When are you having a baby?!?!”. Uugh! I am so sick of hearing others get that one and I’m not even close to being married yet!!
No matter what you do, someone will have preconceived notions, which may be based on prejudices or on genuinely not understanding your situation or modern times. I think the video store employee was out of line, but you’re right, it’s not always worth arguing about (as I’ve discovered through experience)!
My fiance & I also alternate paying for dinner, as with the above poster. We sometimes get comments from the waitor/waitress when I pay. I explain that we share everything and alternate paying, which people respond by saying that’s progressive or fair. Well, I don’t know about being progressive, but it is fair and it works for us. And to some people, it does seem progressive!
So, you’re right, a bit of tact has to sometimes be used when dealing with someone’s rude comments.
When we first started announcing our engagement, I got a lot of women saying, “Good job!” or, “Good for you!”
I’ve had a few men say the same, but from them it always sounds like congratulations. From women - and it was always women 15+ years my senior - it sounds like they’re saying, “Good work suckering that man into marriage! And at such a young age, too!”
Now that we are married, we have joint bank accounts, so when I am the one signing the credit card slip, it is the same thing as if he was signing it since it is the same money, but boy does my husband get dirty looks when people think that he is making his date pay. We have actually had people try to stop me from paying and say that I can do better…what does it matter to these people who pays…as long as it is one of us! That is what really annoys me! I don’t like to feel embarrassed for paying for things or have people thinking I am “dating” a cheap-skate!!
The worst comments we got were probably from my own dad! He would make snide remarks to my FH about “the old ball ‘n’ chain” and “becoming a ‘yes’ man.” My FH really got upset about this, because he and I always try to buck stereotypes, especially the one about marriage being the end of “single fun.”
We also split everything 50/50 for the most part.
Wow. We’ve been pretty lucky, no one has commented on anything. In fact, we’re even contemplating both changing our names if/when we have kids and people almost always think it’s cool.
yah, that’s crazy…most married couples share $ anyway, so I’ve actually been more laid back about ’sharing bills’ now…he makes more than me, so he pays more *now that we are engaged* but that is definitely NOT why I am marrying him…ugh
I am considering myself one lucky duck! Mainly because most of the responses (that I’ve heard) have been “You are one lucky man!” or something to that affect. We alternate paying, but its not 50/50. He gets paid a decent amount while I am in a grad school position. I cannot afford 50/50! =) But we alternate so it feels more balanced. If he pays for dinner than I’ll pay the next time we go out…. for lunch. Or I’ll get the bar tab later. Again, the only odd responses have been towards him with a “Dude. She’s paying? Does she have a sister?” type of thing.
I our case I maek significantly more than he does but most things come out of our joint account. He always insisted on paying for things until we created a joint account. Now I pay all the bills and if we switch off and on but not specifically since it mostly comes from the joint account.
I make twice what he does and everything that goes into the joint account is ours. People get really mad that he enjoys his hobbies or buys his clothes with “my” money. My mother in particular likes to freak out about this, especially in regards to wedding expenses. We are paying our expenses from the same place - I pay mine and he pays his from the same bank account. But the family is really upset that he isn’t paying for his expenses separately, since they’re “his” and “my” money is paying for them. (If they want to get really technical, it actually is his because we live off my salary and bank his - all our wedding expenses are from our savings, his paycheck.)
Also, lately we have been using his credit card when we go out. Except not everyone takes the card, so if they don’t, I whip mine out. I am really surprised at the reaction from servers on this one, they think he tricked me into paying or something. Crazy.
FH and I have alternated paying for meals out since we started dating. I make quite a bit more than he does, but we aren’t much for the traditional role of the male paying for “dates”. I will sometimes pick up an expensive meal even if it is his turn because I know that will limit his savings for the month. Because he does insist on paying an equal or greater portion of some bills (like his cell data plan and the highest speed internet), I have been able to save so much money for the wedding and honeymoon that we are paying for, as well as keep our emergency fund untouched.
I haven’t really come across many comments when I would reach across for the bill instead of letting a waiter hand it to FH. Usually there would be an apology in their eyes and they would bring back the slip directly to me to sign. Some of the fancier places would make a point to hand it back to FH and we would laugh about it.
I think our honeymoon travel agent was a little surprised that I was the one making all of the plans for the honeymoon and paying for the whole thing instead of FH. But again, I really don’t sweat it when it lists FH name first on every document. To me, it makes a worse impression when someone argues about a subject than if they can make some intelligent, maybe even slightly biting jokes about the situation. I tend to remember those times well and thoughtfully rather than getting rilled up and think the other person was over-reacting. Then again, I am fairly dismissive of closed-minded people in general. I have a low tolerance for people who can’t think for themselves and have to have their opinions fed to them.
I hate it when my husband and I go to restaurants and the server gives him the bill. Every time. I pay for most things because I make more money. I think servers should start putting the bill in between the diners. Nobody should assume the guy pays.
I wouldn’t have yelled, but he’d have gotten my iciest glare, and a deadpan “yes. because you know all about my life from this 60 second slice.”
Miss ST-I hear ya! Once people at work heard that I was engaged, they actually asked when I was quitting work? For real! I was supremely offended as I’m an aerospace engineer and therefore constantly deal with stereotypes, but this crossed the line! I said something super snarky lilke, oh I didn’t realized when I say I do it will be to a lobotomy! Ugh!
In our new (less metropolitan) town, my fiance and I are always shocked by the attitude males have regarding groceries and cooking. People think, and comment, that we’re weird for going to the grocery store together, and taking turns preparing meals.
We have one friend that literally could not remember the last time he set foot in a grocery store because his girlfriend does all of their grocery shopping. Another example: there is a couple at my office, where the wife actually makes the husband his microwave meal for lunch AND some days he complains that it’s not one he wants.
I think its a big blow to my ego when men joke around about stuff like this, not only because it brings up the gender inequality issue, but it also ignores the fact that I contribute half of everything to our bills, and Mr. Peng and I make approximately the same amount of money. So when someone (being a friend or a bystander) makes a comment like that, it makes me furious. I want to scream out “Eff you! I work twice as hard and make more money than him so why dont you just suck on that?” I hate that people make the assumption that engagement/marriage is a free mealticket, BUT I loathe even more when women say stuff like “I can’t wait to stop working once I get married.” I guess thats a personal choice, but it hurts me to think that there really are people who are looking for a meal ticket. If you plan to raise your child at home, I have no problems with that whatsoever! But really? So you’re just gonna get married and quit your job and not even plan to have kids right away? I dunno. I think women (sadly) lose power in their relationships when they don’t make money, and thats why I hate to see them just quit their jobs and stay at home with no intention of starting a family immediately (and no intention to work ever again even after the kids are grown). I guess its a personal choice, but it pains me to see women that do that, and it further perpetuates those lame assumptions that that video store guy made of you…because sadly, there are totally women out there that are like that…I’ve met so many.
Hubby and I make roughly the same (i make a little more) and after marriage our account is joint so it really doesn’t matter who signs the check. But before marriage he always paid for movies, dinner, etc. Bigger purchases were split of course. I really kind of resent the implication from some people that a woman isn’t a feminist or isn’t pro-woman if she allows a man to pay for her or doesn’t take turns or doesn’t go halfsies. When will women stop passing judgement on other women? I can have a successful career, make more money, have him pay AND still be pro-woman. Sometimes a meal or a movie is just that and shouldn’t be seen as a commentary on the state of women in the U.S. Personally, if I wanted to go dutch I’d go out with a friend.
Regarding the video store guy, he chose to accept that. It disgusts me when people complain about their relationships as if they’re a helpless victim when they’ve chosen to accept that treatment. If he doesn’t think it’s fair, he needs to have a chat with the missus. Complaining to customers is pathetic.
As for the rest of the comments, that reflects how *they* view relationships, not what your relationship really is. I don’t think it matters what the financial arrangement between partners is, as long as it’s mutually agreed upon and considered fair by both of you.
Yay pengy for some wonderful comments! And baghdadbride, you are so right, I think women are often the worst about being judgemental of other women. DH and I are mostly on the same page about money, and the way we have currently divided the bills (we haven’t gotten around to a joint account yet) has me paying most of the big ones, and him covering our leisure spending and savings. So while he pays for dinner, and hotels, and throws down his Nordstrom’s card when I want a new pair of shoes, I pay the mortgage and the utilities and the cable and the telephone (he moved in with me, so all that is still in my name, so it just makes sense to us). However it’s hilarious how often people assume and comment on how lucky I am that he’s so generous!! We just ignore it, but it can get pretty annoying.
My boss refers to my FI as my ‘betrothed.’ I know it’s not all that derogatory but it sounds like I’m dragging him to the alter.
MissBanana, that was also my reaction to the video store guy — “if you hate paying all the time, stop whining to total strangers and talk to your partner about it, you dweeb!”
Reminds me of a guy who tried to pick me up by telling me his sad, sad tale of woe: the “love of his life” dumped him “after I must have spent like $30,000 taking her out and buying her presents.” Gee, I wonder why she might not have wanted to continue dating a guy who put an exact dollar value on their relationship and thought his financial investment meant she would stay with him forever. Seriously, ew.
Weirdly, no one ever comments when I pay for dinner out with my fiance — but I get comments *all the time* when my brother and I are hanging out and I pick up the check! My brother has perfected a deadpan, slightly annoyed “she’s my sister.”
This is kind of off topic but I heart Jim and Pam too. Are you super excited for the new season to start Ms. Sweet Tea??
Maybe I’m sheltered? Or naive? The FI and I have never dealt with this before. I think it’s because he’s so tall and intimidating (har!).
I couldn’t agree more with your post, and we’ve been through similar situations that have really driven me nuts. But the wedding related gender stereotype that burns me the most is the implication that because I’m a woman, I must be a spoiled, wedding-obsessed princess and because he’s a man, my fiance must be being forced into doing everything my way because I’m a terrorizing “bridezilla.” Neither my fiance nor I are into traditional weddings, and we both have taken active roles in planning a celebration that truly represents us as a couple without worrying about conventional wedding trappings. Though we’re both excited to get married, we’ve BOTH grown quite weary of wedding planning (we would have been happy at city hall, but it meant a lot to our mothers to have a “real” wedding, so there you go) and are truly looking forward to the madness being over. Yet when people ask if we’re “so excited,” they laugh and pat him on the back when he says he’s looking forward to being done, but they glare, scoff, or look truly confused when I say the same. I’m sick of people saying, “Really? But you’re a girl!” as if that fact alone means I should be a frilly, detail obsessed control freak. Drives me freaking bananas.
Great post and I love the title. I can’t believe how many stereotypes I came up against when my guy and I started dating, got engaged and then married. We were just at the state fair a couple of weekends ago, and were sharing the news of our pregnancy with a booth dealer, and he was saying things to my guy about him not getting any attention for the next four years and that him and his wife have been married for thirty, but it’s been rough and so on. I finally had to shut him up. Who talks to complete strangers this way?
Oops. I hit reply too soon. What I meant to say is that I think this problem is exacerbated by race. Mr. HC (who is Jewish) and I (Asian) always get comments that have a subtext of “aw, it’s so cute that your little mail order Asian bride is paying/speaking English/driving.” Um, scuse me? I have a law degree and am near a Ph.D. in English, and you’re congratulating my fiance for marrying someone who can _speak_ English? Prepared to be schooled.
@Miss Hot Cocoa: You had me at race 
Seriously though, best comment ever.
@ Miss Sweet Tea: I love it when you post about topics that take a deeper look at societal expectations, gender, and sexual orientation.
This really touched a nerve with me today. because i am still suffering from an identity theft problem, my FI and I use his account. Because of the identity theft I do not have a card or checks on this account. So today, i was clothes shopping. because the FI can’t stand watching me shop, I shopped while he ran errands. I then had to wait for him to get back so he could pay. Now, my money goes into that account too, but the saleswomen made ‘ooh, lucky” remarks at me. I was fairly steamed. They obviously assumed I was just letting him pay. Sorry i’m late to the party but this left me FURIOUS.
my favorite was a guy (a client I’m not a huge fan of) who asked why I was changing my name. Progressive sounding, right? Well, I really want to change my name and mentioned I want my husbands name, want our family to share one name, etc. He said, “yeah right…more like you want access to his bank account” wth?? First of all, we shared a bank account 8 months before marrying, second, I make more $$ than him, and finally how freaking dare u?!?! Grrrrr…
@Miss Hot Cocoa: you better believe I have a post coming up on being taken for a Filipina mail-order bride… fun fun fun.
Ditto to what Mrs Gingerbread said - I love your post about topics that take a deeper look also, Thanks!
FH and I switch off paying too and while I haven’t had anyone make a comment when I pay, I have noticed that ppl make more comments about us being together or FH being my husband when he is paying for something large (like getting his windows tinted) and I’m just along for the ride - like oh look he brought the little woman along. Grrrr…
Miss Sweet Tea, San Diego/New Orleans
Age and Occupation: 26, Graduate Student
Fiance's Age and Occupation: 29, Web Monkey
Engagement Date: December 1, 2007
Wedding Date: December, 2008
Blogging Since: July 14, 2008
Venue: Small church ceremony, museum reception
About Me: I'm an East Coaster living on the West Coast, planning a wedding in the South. I teach, study and write about pop culture, race, and sexuality for a living- now if only my dream job paid! After Mr. Sweet Tea, my other loves are scuba diving, traveling, being a semi-pretentious foodie, and fighting for social justice. I can't wait to have our best friends and family together in our favorite city to
celebrate with us!
Actually, my biggest personal issue has been the name change question. My fiance is taking my name and when I explain this, people get this “oh another overbearing woman and subservient man, she must be such a b*tch” look and tone. I so hate that.