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Mrs. Cheese, Knoxville Age and Occupation: 29, Engineering Manager Fiance's Age and Occupation: 27, CAD Designer Engagement Date: July 31, 2008 Wedding Date: May, 2009 Blogging Since: October 16, 2008 Venue: Our home and the two acres it sits on About Me: I’m an emotional girl who loves sentimental things, parenthetical asides, and trying to do things herself. I can cook, sew, am a whiz at planning, terrible at delegating, and totally in love with my fiancé (who will be my second husband but first love of the rest of my life). For our home/ garden/ DIY wedding, we’ll be moonlighting as interior designers, home improvers, and gardeners with the help of our fabulous friends and neighbors. We can’t wait to be married, and are learning how fun getting married can be.
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Assess Your Divorce Risk Widget…

December 3rd, 2008 @ 6:23 pm by Mrs. Cheese

I just got this blog post in my reader, from the nerdy folks at the Freakonomics blog, titled “Assessing Your Divorce Risk.”

What are the odds of your marriage ending in divorce?

This is a risk with some pretty important consequences, but chances are, you don’t have the foggiest idea on how to quantify it. Until now.

My favorite economist (and my significant other), Betsey Stevenson, has put together a neat online widget for the folks at Divorce360.com. The widget crunches recent marital history data to assess your chances of getting divorced, and it does this by taking account of some very simple demographics. Learn your divorce risk here.

This is particularly interesting to me because of a comment conversation we had on my Something Old Something New post. Erin commented:

You asked what do you gain by waiting a few years to get married - I guess it is related to whatever you think you will lose by waiting (or gain by not waiting). Statistically speaking, waiting causes you to lose percentage points! People are always saying that they have a 50% chance of getting divorced - that is not true for everyone. Older than 25 when you get married, you can subtract 9%. Combined income over $75K, subtract a bunch more. Not pregnant? Already started your careers? Subtract a bunch more. Statistically speaking, your first marriage was more likely to fail than this one just based on your age alone (I deduced you were 21 when you first got married) and possibly career status.

She’s right. The 50% divorce rate doesn’t seem to be true for most people. The research upon which the widget is based is here (and the trends are discussed here and here), by the way.

As Justin writes:

The point is that factors like age at first marriage and education tell us a lot about divorce risk. Let’s not confuse correlation and causation though — these divorce risks are useful as statistical forecasts (even if they can’t answer the “what if” question) of how divorce risks change if you delay your marriage.

Given how forthcoming I am about, well, everything (see: boobs, divorces, communication problems), I don’t think you’ll be surprised that I’m willing to share my results. For my first marriage, at the point that we separated (five years in) I got this (interestingly, had I been a college graduate when we got married, my divorce risk would have been higher!):

People with similar backgrounds who are already divorced: 23%

People with similar backgrounds who will be divorced over the next five years: 21%

For my second marriage:

People with similar backgrounds who are already divorced: N/A

People with similar backgrounds who will be divorced over the next five years: 8%

Hmmmm. And, just for kicks, Mr. Cheese’s risk:

People with similar backgrounds who are already divorced: N/A

People with similar backgrounds who will be divorced over the next five years: 7%

So, Mr. Cheese is less likely to get divorced than I am (Is it bad that this makes me feel good?) and our risks are both FAR under the 50% rate that’s often quoted. At the point that we plan to have kids (in a couple of years), my risk falls another two percentage points to 6%.

I found it odd that I wasn’t asked if I’d been married before, so I went digging and found this footnote in the paper underlying the widget:

We concentrate on first marriages so that the divorce hazards reflect the average person’s experience rather than the average marital experience. The patterns are similar for second marriages, however second marriages are more likely to end in divorce.

So, my risk of divorce is slightly higher than Mr. Cheese’s after all.

{Brief interlude to remind people that this is just an online tool meant to enlighten, that I certainly don’t intend to imply that anybody wants or plans to get divorced, and to ask that we keep our comments respectful around what can be a touchy subject for some people. Not for me, though, don’t worry. I’m an open book. All questions are fair game with me; I don’t necessarily have to answer them, after all!}

I took it. Did you? What did you find out about your divorce risk?

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26 Responses to “Assess Your Divorce Risk Widget…”

1.
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Miss Meatball (message)  581 posts, Busy bee

4% baby. Feeling pretty safe :)

 
2.
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Miss Taffy (message)  1,913 posts, Bumble bee

6%. Sounds good to me!

 
3.
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Miss Peep Toe (message)  1,178 posts, Bumble bee

6% here. I really like this tool thanks!!

 
4.
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futuremrsfarland

6% for me, 5% for him. Good to know….

 
5.
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Sarah

6%. It helps to marry old, I bet.

 
6.
budgetbeautiful
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budgetbeautiful (message)  380 posts, Helper bee

7% here for both of us.

 
7.
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MollyJane

6% for me. 8% for him.

 
8.
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Tea

6% for me and 5% for him. not bad. not bad at all!

 
9.
HistoryBride
Member
HistoryBride (message)  335 posts, Helper bee

12% for us, but I don’t put any faith in this at all. Maybe I’m young and naive, but I’d like to think I know what I’m getting into. I know I’m not going to feel those warm, fuzzy lovey feelings all the time, I know there are going to be tough times, probably a lot of them, and I know that we need strong communication to get over those bumps.

Frankly, I’m pretty sick of people telling me that I’m going to get divorced five or ten years down the road. If my parents are still together, with a now happy marriage, after being completely mismatched for each other and putting each other through so much crap over the last 30 years, I think I can hang in there.

 
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frenchbulldog (message)  4,017 posts, Honey bee

7% for me and 5% for him :) Not to shabby.
FYI - I couldn’t use the widget with Google Chrome and I had to use Internet Explorer.

 
11.
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Anne

I think mine ended up around 19%. I agree that if you’ve been divorced once, there’s a greater chance of getting divorced again (evidence: father-in-law married 3 times, mother married 4 times- their first spouses were only remarried once more). Some people are just really bad at marriage. Others learn from their mistakes and make better choices the second time around. I think the overall divorce rate reflects a lot of 2nd and 3rd marriages, which can also suggest that there are a lot more first time marriages making things work in the long run.

 
12.
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Anne

another thought… I wonder if the divorce rate will go up or down over the next generation? Our parents lived very different lives than we do, and our children will live even more differently yet- I wonder if this has a positive or negative impact on the future of marriage?

PS. I LOVE Freakenomics - awesome book.

 
13.
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Julie

It’s kind of lame that it only goes to 5 years. I mean, I’m pretty damn confident that my marriage will make it to 5 years… we’re more than halfway to 1, we’ve were already dating over 5 years before we got married, and we’ll be living apart for 3-4 years (so it’s not like we’ll be seeing each other to fight and/or get sick of each other on a daily basis). I was never concerned about short term. I’d be FAR more interested in what predictions would be for, say, 15 years down the road. I mean, it would be really quite disheartening if our marriage couldn’t hold up for as long as we dated before we were married.

 
14.
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Laura

8% for me and 6% for him.

However, a gripe: am I the only one who’s annoyed that women are asked whether or not they have children and men are not? Even if we accept the stereotype that men are less invested in their children than their wives, I find it hard to believe that children have absolutely no impact on whether or not they get divorced.

 
15.
Mrs. Penguin
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Mrs. Penguin (message)  1,606 posts, Bumble bee

@Laura: I found it strange too, however, I personally feel like if I get divorced and I already have children, I won’t feel like marrying again. I don’t find particular “need” for partnership other than having children. I am lucky to have found someone I love and want to spend the rest of my life with, but if it doesn’t work out and I already have children, I feel like that part of my life will be fulfilled… whereas I can see my husband would probably seek partnership again. I’m not sure if I am alone in this but I feel like children would make my life complete, whether my husband and I make it or not.

 
16.
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Miss Hot Cocoa (message)  1,538 posts, Bumble bee

This is fascinating. Mine’s 4%, which I guess comes from marrying late (31 and older).

 
17.
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bugaboo (message)  122 posts, Worker bee

I got 6%, but I wonder why they don’t ask how long you have been dating prior? I think it might change the statistics. My FI and I will have been together over 7 years when I marry at the age of 31. So, just for fun I put in married age of 31 and put we have been married for 7 years, and guess what? My percentage went up to a 9% risk. I think it’s interesting that the longer you are with someone, they assume you have more chance of getting divorced just on time alone.

 
18.
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Miss Crab Cake (message)  576 posts, Busy bee

5% for both of us. That’s reassuring!

 
19.
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mandy

8 for me and 12 for him. (The only difference with ours is that I’m a out of college and he’s still in school). Still, much lower than I expected (I hear upwards of 50% from my o-so-encouraging mom).

 
20.
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Doctorgirl

I took this the other day and came up with 4%. I’m “old” and overeducated. I wondered if they should have factored in parental marriage status, as I think modeling has an impact on all of us ( whether it is that you learn how you don’t want to do things or that you had strong role modeling through early experience)?

 
21.
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Catherine

I got 8% and FI got 9%. What I found interesting is they didn’t ask how long you had been together or if you had similar religious and economic backgrounds. I’ve noticed that those two things can really play hell on a relationship, especially once kids are involved.

 
22.
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Laura

I kinda wish there was more to this quiz. I’ve seen many articles before that also include religion, income and family upbringing (parents stayed together or split up) as other indicators. People like to take a stab at predicting like it’s an exact or semi exact science but really I think you could have all the odds stacked against you and still make it work if you set your mind to it.

 
23.
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Erin

Yeah! I’ve always wanted this to be a main page post on here! I think this 50% figure that floats around does a lot of people a great disservice in a variety of ways. On the one hand, it is quite pessimistic and most of us don’t buy cars, take jobs, do anything that has a 50% failure rate, so it can be disconcerting to be misinformed that our marriages have one! On the other hand, I have a friend who was just casually divorced who keeps saying, “Well, I only had a 50% shot…” - when she was closer to 10%. I don’t like when people pretend that things happen TO them as opposed to them being of their own making, and the 50% myth helps that.
Finally, to answer the question of what are other signifanct factors in a predictive regression model of who will get divorced:
Age
Education/career status
Total income
Pregnancy as impetus
Religion
Parents marital status
Cohabitation pre-marriage* - which interestingly makes you more likely to get divorced?! I hate this one because we lived together!

But remember, these are correlations, and several of these are likely proxies. For instance, research has suggested that people who live outside of their parents’ homes before living with your spouse (aka dorm, apartment) fair better. So age may simply be a proxy for that as the older we get, the less likely we are to live at home. Or age may be a proxy for money… And that living together thing, some people think it is a proxy for religion - people who are more* religious may not live together before they are married and also may not divorce due to their religion. My husband thinks it is a proxy for creep - some people creep from dating into being exclusive, then creep into living together, and then creep into being married - without each being a conscious decision.
And to end the hive’s longest comment - not getting a divorce is not equal to having a happy marriage. I think maybe it’s time we redefine “successful marriage” to mean more than “not divorced.”
*More is subjective… I dislike when people think they are *more* religious just because they do (or really don’t do) x, y, and z.

 
24.
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West Coast bride

Erin–you’re right! Longest post of them all, but so true! I totally agree that “still together” doesn’t equal “success” when it comes to marriage, and I find it really challenging to talk to people who have been married a long time, and think I should aspire to have a marriage like theirs. I don’t mean to diminish the efforts of long-time marrieds, but there are definately people who stay together for other reasons beyond that they love being each other’s companion.

 
25.
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Miss Cheese (message)  548 posts, Busy bee

Erin — I think this is a great comment too. I think that age might also be a proxy for “world view” (getting an idea of all of your options and still choosing your mate, with downsides and warts and everything)… which is somewhat similar to your husband’s take on the living together factor.

Having lived together (this should be another post, shouldn’t it?), I can see how it might be detrimental to your marriage if you didn’t live together AS IF you were going to be married. Know what I mean? Living together as a trial, but still protecting your individual needs and self, sets you up with bad habits. I saw this when the mr. and I were first living together, even though we knew we’d be married. As a single person, my responsibility was to myself and my financial future, and I’d be stupid to do otherwise. As a committed couple, my responsibility is to our family, and my financial decisions are often different than they would have been. When you’re already married, you KNOW you’re a couple, so you start off your living arrangements with that in mind.

 
26.
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Mrs. Cherry Pie (message)  649 posts, Busy bee

6% for me and 5% for him. Woop.

 


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Mrs. Cheese Mrs. Cheese, Knoxville Age and Occupation: 29, Engineering Manager Fiance's Age and Occupation: 27, CAD Designer Engagement Date: July 31, 2008 Wedding Date: May, 2009 Blogging Since: October 16, 2008 Venue: Our home and the two acres it sits on About Me: I’m an emotional girl who loves sentimental things, parenthetical asides, and trying to do things herself. I can cook, sew, am a whiz at planning, terrible at delegating, and totally in love with my fiancé (who will be my second husband but first love of the rest of my life). For our home/ garden/ DIY wedding, we’ll be moonlighting as interior designers, home improvers, and gardeners with the help of our fabulous friends and neighbors. We can’t wait to be married, and are learning how fun getting married can be.
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