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Mrs. Thimble, NYC/Philadelphia Age and Occupation: 26, Actress & Costume Designer (+ day job) Fiance's Age and Occupation: 26, Lawyer & Techie Wiz Engagement Date: August 22, 2008 Wedding Date: October 2010 Venue: The Pearl S. Buck House About Me: I’m an easily inspired over-thinker delighted with the process of designing, building, directing and {dare I say} co-starring in the early-autumn affair I’ve been dreaming up. I’m a sucker for trendied-up comfort foods and old family anecdotes; I have an affinity for adjectives, alliteration, eyelet and earl grey; and I live for quality time with family and friends. I never guessed I’d marry my “high school sweetheart", but when it turned out to be my funny, techie, loyal Mr. Thimble I was committed for life. We’re both mid-career transition and ready to move back to small-townish TBD, PA in a pre-wedding flurry of all-good life changes.
About Mrs. Thimble

Interfaith Co-Officiants

July 19th, 2010 @ 12:40 pm by Mrs. Thimble

Note: This (long) post is specific to Catholic-NonCatholic interfaith weddings. Actually, it might be specific only to a Catholic-Jewish interfaith wedding, but my hope is that this will be helpful for a Catholic-Anything interfaith wedding as a starting point. It is also based only on my experiences, which does not make me an expert. A while ago I promised to post about my experiences finding a priest and a rabbi to co-officiate, so here goes!

So, you’re marrying outside the Catholic Faith. OR you are not Catholic, but your fiance is, and you’ve decided to go the equal representation of religions route rather than choosing one or nixing religion and using a Justice of the Peace. It may seem impossible at first, but knowledge is power when it comes to finding a Catholic Priest to co-officiate, so lets go over what Mr. Thimble and I needed to do and maybe it can help some of you.

I was really nervous and I’ve never been very active at church. I avoided asking our local parish priest and I hesitated to email a priest I knew from college (a Catholic university). Lucky for me, before I worked up the nerve to contact either of them, my aunt (and Godmother) worked some magic and emailed her cousin, the graduate chaplain at Harvard, who has performed countless interfaith ceremonies and knows exactly what he’s doing. And, he’s super smart and can explain why we have to do what we’re doing and where it comes from. Which is what I need.

Mr. Thimble and I hopped on a Bolt Bus to Boston, and then to Cambridge, one weekend in April 2009 for a Pre-Cana adventure. (Pre-Cana is Catholic pre-marital preparation. It can be a series of shorter classes or one intense weekend. I highly recommend the weekend route—it’s not bad at all and it’s done in one shot). Pre-Cana is required prep work for any Catholic marriage. We got our certificate, and then we met with my uncle (once removed?) priest—we’ll call him Father G.—who hooked us up with petitions for the following two dispensations from the Philadelphia Archdiocese. (Dispensation is Catholic for permission, or forgiveness for doing something out of the ordinary, sorta).

  1. Permission to marry outside of the cult (”Cult” being the language used in old Canon Law)
  2. Permission for a Rabbi (or other religious minister) to accept our vows.

Number 1 is obvious, but number 2 is KEY. Number 2 is the only way to get around marrying in a Catholic church, because if the Rabbi is marrying us (receiving the vows) he/she cannot do that in a Catholic church. If the priest is accepting the vows (actually marrying us), then it would have to be on Catholic ground. And that’s not cool for my Jewish family-to-be. We wanted neutral ground.

After filling out other routine paperwork, and committing to the statement that I will, to the the best of my ability, raise my children Catholic… and he stressed the part of the statement to the best of my ability... (loophole if you’re not comfortable committing to raising your half-Jewish children Catholic before you’ve even considered children)…

Father G. sent us home and we waited to hear if permission was granted. About a month later we got a frantic phone call (he fires on all cylinders all the time), that Father G. had the official dispensations in hand—where should he send them?, and that we should get moving to find a priest to perform the ceremony.

Big bummer—because Father G. is in academics, so he’s too busy in October to commit in advance to a trip to Philly. But he assured me that with this paperwork in hand, no priest should turn us down.

This proved to be an emotional roller coaster as I was indeed turned down by my first choice, a priest from college, an Oblate (an academic and generally open-minded order of priests—the same order of priests my uncle/cousin priest is in… actually, he’s on the board at my college, but string pulling never works for me). I cried my face off. This process is a rough one. You are taught to be respectful (for me that translates to shy and a little frightened) of clergy as a little Catholic kid, and then you go in as an adult with knowledge and life experience, hard copy proof that everything is in order, asking for help, and you get belittled and condescended to… anyway I digress. It was bad. But I didn’t want to give up after dragging Mr. T. through pre-cana.

So I contacted my local parish after all, where I attended CCD for only 3 years as a kid, where my parents aren’t particularly active, held my breath, and I got a positive response!! What?? It was that easy? We could have stayed local the whole time? Lesson learned: Ask everyone. Don’t avoid your home parish on the assumption that they aren’t liberal enough to condone and interfaith marriage—it’s 2010. Maybe they get it, maybe they don’t.

We had it easy on the Jewish side. Mr. Thimble’s family belongs to a Reconstructionist synagogue. If you are looking for a rabbi to perform and interfaith ceremony, you want to try Reform and Reconstructionist rabbis. They’re a bit more liberal. They all have their own stance on the issue, so again you may have to ask around a lot. Go through family members and friends and recommendations.

Rabbi C. from Mr. T.’s synagogue has done many interfaith ceremonies, they have a diverse and vibrant congregation with several active interfaith families, and he has been wonderful teaching me about the Jewish wedding ceremony.

The best piece of advice I can give you for this process is to be open about your reasons for wanting to represent both religions, and express your desire to learn about your partner’s religion. If you didn’t care about your religious faith or your family’s culture and your future family’s culture, you wouldn’t be doing all this work in the first place. Your interest in your partners religion will reassure each officiant that you are making an educated decision when it comes to raising your children, and what sort of religious life you will celebrate as a couple. This is the fun part that makes it all worth it for me. Mr. Thimble and I waver on agnostic, but our cultures are an important part of us. We want that reflected in our wedding ceremony and we know our upbringings will inform how we raise our future children.

Another option, that involves less legwork, is Rabbi Rentals, and Rent a Priest. I know couples who have had good experiences with renting a rabbi- I know less about renting a priest. It’s a shortcut, but after all this work I would consider it in hind-sight. Interfaith Family is another great resource for Interfaith-Jewish couples for many stages of a family’s life-cycle.

Are you part of an interfaith couple? Are you going the co-officiant route?

Tags: ceremony, philadelphia, religious |
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16 Responses to “Interfaith Co-Officiants”

1.
Mrs. Dolphin
Bee
Mrs. Dolphin (message)  503 posts, Busy bee

The Mr and I are both Catholic but I was never baptized in the Catholic church, nor did I go through the schooling like my husband did. This made it difficult for us to have the Catholic Wedding we wanted.

We used Rent a Priest and had no issues! Our Priest was a little expensive ($500) but I feel that is to be expected for what we wanted. He gave us a book and let us write our own ceremony. It was perfect. My MIL used Rent a Priest for her Wedding and he only cost around $50, AMAZING. Of course they were married in their home and she cooked him dinner after the Wedding.

Interfaith Weddings are a tough situation on either side. We ran into issues and we are both Catholic, although ‘according’ to the church I am not, which doesn’t phase me.

 
2.
Miss Thimble
Bee
Miss Thimble (message)  807 posts, Busy bee

@Mrs. Dolphin: At this point I soooo wish we had used rent-a-priest!! It sounds like you had a great experience :)

 
3.
Kim2011
Member
Kim2011 (message)  44 posts, Newbee

What a small world - FI and I did Pre-Cana with the one and only Father G! :) He is amazing! (He definitely “fires on all cylinders all the time”! haha) My FI is Catholic, and I grew up going to a Unitarian church (very non-denominational) because my dad is Jewish, and my mom is Presbyterian. We are getting married at the Catholic chuch at Boston College. We aren’t doing a full mass, and we will be having FI’s childhood priest who married his parents and baptized him and his 4 siblings, as well as Father G. present. I was hoping to have our Unitarian Minister present as well, but that’s been the only let-down so far - a year and a half out and he already has a family vacation planned, so we’re stuck right now with how we will represent my family’s side. It will be interesting once we really start to plan the ceremony!

 
4.
Miss Locket
Bee
Miss Locket (message)  2,837 posts, Sugar bee

Our issue wasn’t quite as severe…neither of us follow a particular religion on our own so we decided initially to do a non-denominational ceremony which eventually led us to going to a Justice of the Peace…they were much less expensive and we wouldn’t have to worry about irrelevant religious undertones.

 
5.
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Member
tatsmom (message)  91 posts, Worker bee

Wow, interesting and inspiring post. My sister married a Catholic but was not interested in converting herself, in the area where we live, getting married required her to go to some kind of pre-marital Catholic counseling. I remember that day because she called me livid as the Priest doing the counseling had flat out told her she would go to hell if she didn’t convert. That was the end of the Catholic wedding. They ended up getting married in a liberal Protestant church.
Many years ago I married a Muslim and went through the same unknown territory. It’s much easier now though. Best of luck.

 
6.
shaydenise
Member
shaydenise (message)  1,151 posts, Bumble bee

Wow! I definitely know how you feel when it comes to finding an officiant (priest in your case). We are three months out and still don’t have one. We’re both Christians but we live together - for non-public medical reasons - so of course that’s red flags to every religious figure and it apparently makes us horrible people that God hates…. Regardless of who has a terminal illness…. But okay lol. Glad you were able to find people that not only mesh well with you guys but that see why it’s important to the both of you to have both of your religions reflected in your ceremony!

 
7.
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Member
fromcharleston (message)  651 posts, Busy bee

Ooo, I wish I had though to recommend Reconstructionist. We don’t have a Reconstructionist synagogue where I grew up and I sometimes forget that branch exists. Good idea though! And I very much agree that Reform or Reconstructionist are the ways to go if you want an inter-faith ceremony. I think you’d be hard-pressed to find a Conservative rabbi that would agree to it.

 
8.
Trishthedish36
Member
Trishthedish36 (message)  77 posts, Worker bee

Ahh…this is such a source if stress in my life right now. And I am not even technically engaged yet. My boyfriend of 6 years and I have already had to have some serious conversations [that most same-faith couples don't really have to have] about how these issues will affect out life, our children, our relationships with our in-laws, our ceremony, etc. I am Irish Catholic and he is Jewish, Reform.

Anyway, @MissThimble, I am loving the care you put into this process, and although “rent-a-priest” sounds easier, I feel like you and your FI probably learned a lot along the way. Question: what does being “recognized” by the Catholic church mean in reality? Could you not “rent” a Catholic priest without these papers? If a priest and a rabbi are co-officiating, must you “pick” one to administer the vows? Also, in your research, did you find any interfaith-specific pre-cana-type counseling? I don’t really want to potentially alienate my future FI during pre-marriage counseling, especially if the sessions turn more dogmatic than I’d like (and believe).

This was super helpful. I think a lot of the interfaith resources out there are from a Jewish perspective. Thanks!

 
9.
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Guest
Yehudit

We’ve been working with Jewish and Catholic couples for the past 8 years to help them through this process with great success. Co-officiating a ceremony takes a little more planning and the right combination of rabbi and priest. There are alternatives to Roman Catholic priests in other branches of Catholicism that do not have pre-cana. Trishthedish is correct that many of the ‘interfaith” resources are from a Jewish perspective. Our mission is to be an advocate for both partners and provide a harmonious, balanced and universalist approach. Many of the rabbinical organizations that will perform interfaith weddings do so with pre-conditions to raise your children Jewish. We do not believe a couple should go into such an important rite of passage as marriage with pre-conditions placed on them by religious organizations. We believe that marriage is your rite of passage and it should be designed the way you want it to and still acknowledge your traditions.

 
10.
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Guest
Rachelle

You have no idea how much this post means to me. Thank you so much for writing it.

My FI is Hindu and I am Catholic and I am so scared of being turned down by a Catholic priest, though I am certain that I want to be married in a Catholic church. My mom was not able to marry in the church, so it is something that is really important to me.

I loved reading about your struggle and success in finding your officiates. I know the process is not going to be easy, but you have given me the courage.

I have heard that the Jesuit and Paulist priests tend to be more liberal in general, do you know of any other liberal orders that might help the odds?

Also, I had never heard of rent-a-priest, what a great resource to know about!

 
11.
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Guest
Magdalena

Unfortunately, and I hate to be the one to say this, but Rent A Priest is not a Catholic organization. They lie and say they are, but they are not. The “priests” they provide can NOT validly witness a Catholic wedding. Call your local diocese and they’ll confirm :( It’s a long-running scam.

If you had a Rent A Priest wedding you’ll need to have it re-validated by a real Catholic priest, that is, if you care about the Church recognizing your marriage. Some brides don’t really care about the faith aspect at all and are just interested in having a priest for aesthetic reasons or to quiet down pushy family members. In which case it doesn’t matter really.

It sucks but the Catholic Church has not had a lot of success trying to apply truth-in-advertising regulations to these guys.

The key thing to remember is that Rent A Priest is a business. The Church is not. A real Catholic priest will never “charge” you for the sacrament (they may accept a “stole fee” or donation, or their fee may be tucked in to the cost for using the church property). They won’t let you “hire” them for events, and if a couple can prove they are in reduced circumstances, a Catholic priest will marry them for free, which Minister-For-Hire services will NEVER do.

 
12.
Guest Icon
Guest
Magdalena

Here’s a link from my own Cleveland diocese that dicusses the issue.

http://tiny.cc/g1sqb

Key take away: Marriages witnessed by “Rent A Priest” are null and void as far as the actual Catholic Church is concerned.

 
13.
Miss Thimble
Bee
Miss Thimble (message)  807 posts, Busy bee

@Magdalena: I’m with you on this- that’s why I did things the hard way. I sorta just said it was a “shortcut” in my post which is vague. These priests are “fallen away,” as my mom puts it. They wanted to get married, and in the Catholic church you can’t- unlike most other religions. I don’t really consider it a scam simply because they are up front about it. But it turns out after talking with my mom more deeply about it, that she would have been fine if we’d used a Rent-a-Priest. She just wants our Catholic culture equally represented in the structure of the ceremony… and while we wouldn’t have in on the books for the Catholic church that we were married in a proper Catholic way, we would have had a lovely ceremony. I’m not sure what the priest we have is actually going to do besides just stand there. He’s not a great communicator about what parts of the ceremony we can incorporate. But, at least we have the paperwork to prove we completed the sacrament. What’s more important? I’m not sure, to be honest… but I’m happy I did things the “right” way in the end and fortunately our Rabbi does a great ceremony.

which brings me to answering @Trishthedish36: ’s questions. What I meant by “recognized” by the Catholic church is to fulfill the Sacrament of Marriage, and to have record of it with your parish or archdiocese. In the holy sense. (I have no idea what I’m really saying but I think you know what I mean) Our best man’s parents got married in Vegas, and then they wanted to renew their vows or have the marriage blessed in the church later. The priest told them they “weren’t married.” He literally didn’t recognize their marriage as valid unless it was in the Catholic church/until he blessed the marriage. So, renting a priest wouldn’t get you the sacrament and the paperwork, but like I said above, it would visibly represent the Catholic side, while technically being lay men who have left the priesthood.

Yes, I learned that you do have to choose one officiant to administer the vows. I was a little confused about it, but when Father G explained that it works to our advantage in our sitch, I was ok with it.

And finally, the pre-cana we went to in Cambridge was actually led by an interfaith couple. We were extremely lucky to be related to this priest who is part of a really diverse parish in a University setting. I don’t know if they have specific programs for interfaith pre-cana, but most couples I’ve spoken to (or whose blogs I’ve read) didn’t hate it as much as they thought they would. And you’ll be surrounded by other young couples who don’t want the intense dogma either, which helps a lot :) I’d say it’s worth asking your parish though- or try local college campus Catholic churches…?

 
14.
Miss Thimble
Bee
Miss Thimble (message)  807 posts, Busy bee

@Kim2011 Totally small world! And that’s so funny- I wasn’t sure if that was an unnecessary detail about him but I’m glad I kept it and you caught it! :)

 
15.
Guest Icon
Guest
Taylor B

I don’t know about this Rent a Priest, but we are in the same boat. I’m Jewish, my fiance is Catholic. We are getting married by a priest and a rabbi (on a vineyard– how’s that for equally opportunity offenders?) and we asked the same questions. I think there’s a terrible misconception that if you don’t have your marriage in the Catholic church that it won’t be recognized. A priest’s blessing, which is what they can offer outside of the church, is as much a validation in the Catholic church as any other Catholic who choses to marry in the Church with a full mass.

Quite frankly, no church will turn away your children if you chose to raise them in the church, nor will they not accept your tithing (sp?) because you did not “receive the sacrament” of marriage in the church on your wedding day. Marriage is the sacrament, am I right here, Catholics? For what its worth, my fiance is very religious, but obviously when he asked me to marry him, and when all the interfaith couples posting on this comment agreed to marry, there was some understanding that your religious lives– would not be “by the book” if you catch my drift.

If you’re in an interfaith marriage and even if someone plans on converting, your children are going to be exposed to both faiths either in the home, or by virtue of family. A lot of priests seem to understand this and are willing to work with interfaith couples. I hope you find one in your town. They are out there. You just got to ask around. Or find a rabbi first, who has friends in the Catholic church…

 
16.
Trishthedish36
Member
Trishthedish36 (message)  77 posts, Worker bee

@Miss Thimble. Thanks so much - that helps a lot! Good luck with the rest of the planning. I’d love to hear more about the interfaith aspect in your later posts. :)

 

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Mrs. Thimble
Mrs. Thimble

Mrs. Thimble, NYC/Philadelphia Age and Occupation: 26, Actress & Costume Designer (+ day job) Fiance's Age and Occupation: 26, Lawyer & Techie Wiz Engagement Date: August 22, 2008 Wedding Date: October 2010 Venue: The Pearl S. Buck House About Me: I’m an easily inspired over-thinker delighted with the process of designing, building, directing and {dare I say} co-starring in the early-autumn affair I’ve been dreaming up. I’m a sucker for trendied-up comfort foods and old family anecdotes; I have an affinity for adjectives, alliteration, eyelet and earl grey; and I live for quality time with family and friends. I never guessed I’d marry my “high school sweetheart", but when it turned out to be my funny, techie, loyal Mr. Thimble I was committed for life. We’re both mid-career transition and ready to move back to small-townish TBD, PA in a pre-wedding flurry of all-good life changes.

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