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In other words, the two biggest disagreement points between future Foxy and me. Keyword: future.
The topics of God and guns have come up several times, since the two of us don’t necessarily see eye to eye on either one. Where it gets tricky is when we talk about our future kiddos; sure, it’s a (long) ways away, but it’s something that we’re trying to decide on now. Duke it out ahead of time and such.
Here goes:
1. God
Image via Set A Mark
I’ve already mentioned several times that I grew up Lutheran and Foxy is atheist.
Seeing as I’m still “figuring out” my beliefs and spirituality, I suppose you could currently consider me more agnostic than anything else. I only go to church on Easter and Christmas, and Foxy? Well, he’s only ever gone when I’ve forced asked him to go (looove you!). But for some reason, I’m hell bent on raising our future children with God in their lives.
Foxy doesn’t necessarily disagree with this, but he doesn’t want them to feel forced into something. Personally, I never felt forced. My parents exposed me to other religions as a kid and I absolutely loved being so involved in church and the youth group and choir, etc. It was a huge part of my upbringing, and I think it’s good for kids to have some sort of religious structure, at least when they’re young. No, I don’t have a legit or defined reason why I think that, but it’s important to me. Where it stands now, if/when kids come into the picture, I’ll likely end up taking them to church on my own. Am I OK with that? I think so, but who knows? Sounds like a good premarital counseling question.
Delving deeper, I would at least like Foxy to know more about my religious upbringing, and my religion in general. It sort of killed me when I needed to inform him about what Easter is and why it’s celebrated, or what day Christmas actually is. It’s just such a part of me that I don’t how people can not know.. but how could I expect he would if it wasn’t a part of his life? It’s funny how even the prospect of kids can raise concerns that you never thought would be.. a concern.
2. Guns
Image via Keep Schools Safe
Preface: Foxy likes guns. I do not.
He was brought up in upstate New York (OK, near Rochester, but still more country than me) where some of his favorite hobbies were shooting squirrels and going skeet shooting. I? Played pretend teacher with my friends and danced a lot. I was (and still kind of am) completely terrified of guns.
When I met Foxy, he already had a 9mm. He somehow convinced me to go to the range with him (ah, young love…) and I ended up having a mini freak out the first time. There I was, a dancer turned wannabe massage therapist with an enthusiasm for yoga…shooting a gun. Probably funny if you looked at it from any viewpoint but mine.
A few times later, I got more used to shooting and started to not mind it as much (especially when I started to actually shoot what I aimed for). Foxy got a .22 caliber “for me” since it was smaller and had less kick back—nice in theory, but I’ve probably only shot it two or three times in my life. He also eventually got two more guns—another .22 and a much bigger one that I can’t ever see him realistically using (it also intimidates me). I get that a few of them are for personal safety…I do feel a bit better knowing that we’re protected in the house…but they still freak. me. out. Foxy has plans for more guns in the future, to collect them as it’s a hobby and big interest of his. Which, I’m not going to lie, worries me.
Why? Well, again, future kiddos. I don’t like the idea of having lots of guns and one or more children in the house. What if there’s an accident? What if we have a rebellious teenager? What if my child hates me and kills me? (Half joking, half not right there…you hear the news, it’s legit.)
Foxy is set on getting a couple safes in the future, one for guns with a fingerprint lock, one for ammo with a separate fingerprint (retina?) lock. It makes sense and that’s all well and good, but it’s still scary for me. I never thought I’d be in a home that had multiple guns, especially not with potential children around.
I know we could teach them proper gun usage, but I could go back and compare this to the God issue—it’s all about what you were around and exposed to as a child yourself. I had God, he had guns. Question number 2 for premarital counseling, right there.
What about you? Have kids (or the prospect of them) led you and your significant other to any differing opinions? Also, any insight on the God/guns issue?
My dad loves hunting. And has a number of rifles and shotguns. They’re in the garage. And completely locked up. Now granted, I’m old enough to know better than to eff with it. But my nieces are kiddies. And my dad has taught them to stay away, and more Importantly, why to stay away from it and how to be careful. I remember maybe 10 years back (when his collection started) he would teach me about gun safety. So my theory is as long as you teach your kids caution, and do keep it properly locked up, it shouldn’t be a problem at home.
On the God issue: My husband and I were both raised going to church regularly and participating in Sunday School and Youth Group through High School. It was really important to my husband that our children be raised going to church as well. So I told him that if we want it to be important for our kids.. then it has to be important to us. NOW. Before kids. So we joined a church (we live far away from where either of us grew up) and we now attend every Sunday that we are in town. I think if you want to raise your children in a church you need to start going more frequently. If you’re only paying lip service to your religion now, it doesn’t make sense to all of sudden want your children to be super involved.
Oooo, I’m kind of with you on both fronts. I do agree with the premise that it’s what you’re exposed to, and you can teach children anything well (or, poorly, for that matter), but I feel like there’s fewer gory accidents that can occur with religion than with guns. (Full disclosure: I was also raised in a house free of guns and am totally initimidated/downright freaked out by them). Good things to discuss, even if there’s no real conclusion yet!
I completely agree with @Margarita. What is scarier than guns, is people who don’t understand guns. Safety and understanding is #1. I did not grow up around anything other than a BB gun, but Mr. Buck did. He respects them and keeps them locked away the way they should be. I know how to properly use them, and we will raise our kids so they too know how to properly and safely use them and respect them as well. We would rather teach our children that rather than have them be sheltered from them and be exposed to them somewhere else.
As for God, we are both Christians so im not much help there. I can understand how this is very difficult for you though. I think though that it is definitely important to have religious structure. There is nothing wrong with you taking your children to church with you 
Both issues are definitely toughies. Good topic, Fox
My SO is huge into guns, and I started shooting with him. I actually love it!
But even if you don’t like guns, there are a few considerations that might make you feel better about them:
It’s actually more safe if you kids know how to properly handle a firearm, check if it’s loaded, and disarm it. Knowledge is power! Your SO can teach them proper respect for firearms and safety, and that way they’ll actually be more safe. Think about it, guns are everywhere. Even if they’re not in your home they can easily be at somebody else’s… some other kid could find one and they’ll think it’s a toy.
I think it’s important to remember that you can’t shelter your children from the scary things in the world forever, so instead of trying to hide from them, give them the skills to deal with it.
It sounds to me that you like the community of church, not the actual religion itself. And I’m in the same boat!
I’m an atheist, but I loved growing up in the church. I went on mission trips, was in the youth group, and volunteered a lot.
We do not go to church now, and we don’t plan on going to church when we have kids, and it makes me a little sad that they won’t have the same experiences as I had.
But when I think about it, that doesn’t have to be the case. I liked the service part of church and there are plenty of non-religious groups to volunteer with. Kids can still grow up in a supportive community and it doesn’t have to be a church.
You can still celebrate Christmas and Easter without going to church.
It’s great that you know you have these issues now rather than being surprised after you’re married. Our issues so far (regarding future kids) have been schooling and financial support. Neither are huge for us, but I went to private school and he detests the idea of sending children to private school. I’m fine with sending kids to public IF we live in a decent area at the time, a bridge to cross in the future. Also financial support of kids in the future, my parents bought me my first car and paid for my college tuition. His paid for a small part of his college tuition and sold him one of their own cars for what they still owed on it. He’s very much in the ‘they can get a job and earn it themselves’ camp whereas I’m more, ‘let’s help them if we’re able’.
Neither Mr. S nor I are religious (I’m atheist; he’s agnostic), but we plan to raise our kids in some sort of religious community (probably 2 of them.. a UU church and a very progressive Jewish congregation). Religion can be helpful in terms of identity (even if it’s just identifying what you’re not), and it’s hard to find that kind of community outside of a church. And although I don’t plan on bringing them up in a conservative synagogue like I was raised in, I still want them to know where I/they come from. They can make whatever choices they want when they’re older, but I want them to have some grounding in case what they decide they want is religion.
I wouldn’t be okay with guns in the house, either, though. I hope you guys figure out how to resolve these issues! They’re definitely both potentially really sensitive for a lot of people.
I’m in the same boat with religion - I was raised Lutheran, my man was raised more or less without religion (although he has one parent who was raised Catholic and one parent who was raised Lutheran). I want our children to be brought up with religion in their lives because I really enjoyed the social and spiritual aspects of it when I was growing up. I hate the thought of having to take future kiddos to church alone - not really sure why, I just do.
As far as the guns go I can definitely understand your perspective. I can also understand your fiance’s. Before I moved to Alaska I had never been around guns and so was very nervous around them. My fiance taught me a lot about them (he has 7 already and also wants to collect more) and I really began to see that up here they are a way of life. Although in a place where you can run into a moose or a bear right outside your front door I can understand why! I’ve gotten much more confident about guns and gun safety. My fiance has great reasoning for teaching kids proper gun use early (and keeping them under lock and key when they’re not being used for lessons) - it helps teach them responsibility for themselves and others. Part of teaching kids about safe gun use is teaching them that they have a responsibility not only to use guns safely themselves but also to make sure others with guns are following appropriate safety rules. I know that will make me worry less about them going to friend’s houses where there might be guns!
Good luck grappling with these issues, they’re tough ones!
I’m fully on the same page as you with religion. I was born and raised Catholic, though not super involved now. And my fiance is atheist, and definitely disagrees with the Catholic church. I’m not saying I want to raise my kids catholic- I do like the idea of a more progressive church. But like you- it’s more the community of a church that I really like- and having my kids involved in a group like that
Ok so check this out: my FI was raised by a Greek Orthodox father and a Catholic (American) mother and was basically raised with a bunch of the traditions pertaining to those two religions and cultures all mixed together (think: only red Easter eggs and whole roasted lambs and dancing in a circle and Midnight Mass). I was raised by a Unitarian grandmother who comes from THE Mormon family in Salt Lake City (Clark family), an Atheist mother, and on the other side a Jewish grandmother who celebrates Christmas and a father who is essentially Buddhist.
The result of our childhoods resulted in him being a Knight of Columbus who only goes to church for Easter and Midnight mass yet seriously questions the legitimacy of the current Catholic church (long, bitter story), and me having all these”lost” feelings in my childhood about what the heck I should even believe in or what traditions I should follow. HanukkahChristmasYuletideBodhi? When I met my FI, I was actually jealous that he seemed to have a long-time, pretty clear cut belief system in place. I ended up following non-religious celebrations that reflected some of my direct heritage, mainly Yuletide which includes Winter Solstice, because that’s what I feel most comfortable with. It’s basically Christmas without the Jesus factor.
Both having been raised with multi-cultural relatives, we agree that kids should be allowed to choose for themselves what they want to do. I’ll be going with him this year to Midnight Mass to experience the event and the culture, but I am more than certain I won’t be converting to Catholicism any time soon! And I wouldn’t mind one bit if the kids wanted to do that as well. We agree that allowing children to organically develop a sense of spirituality through the channel of their choosing is the best way to go, and the parents should not “force” them to do anything in particular.
The traditions you practice absolutely should have a very clear reason behind them. If you do not have a definite reason as to WHY you want to take them to church, then how are you going to explain this to your children when they inevitably ask you? Both I and my FI are perfectly able to explain to other adults why we do the spiritual things we do, the beackground of it, etc. and so we feel well equipped to explain our traditions to children.
I feel for you with the gun issue. Imagine marrying a cop? That is what I am doing. He took me to the range and I had a full blown panic attack once I was inside. I may be physically repulsed by the sound of gunfire, but I had to get used to the idea of a gun always being within arms reach. It’s been a year and a half and I still will not go back to the range, but I can carry his weapon in the house if his hands are full. That’s progress.
Ooo good topics Fox! We see pretty much eye to eye on both of these issues. But I think that’s because we are both neutral when it comes to each one. We don’t anticipate attending church (not that it couldn’t happen) but we have agreed on other things we DO want to do as a family. And for guns, we were both raised around them but the mister doesn’t hunt so we have no need for one in the house (although if he got one for protection, I would not object). Talks about our future kids revolve more around if the babay will be snowboarding or rafting and what kind of safety precautions we need to take there…
@Margarita: The more I read and understand about guns, the more I see the point and positive side about teaching kids proper guns usage early on. Thanks for the input!
@Moose1209: I absolutely see your point, but it just doesn’t fit in with my life right now for a couple of different reasons. I think this is a big transition period in my life in religion as well as other things - I suppose I”m hoping that it will eventually be right for me in the future, but I know it doesn’t fit into my life too well right now. Friends of mine go to a nondenominational church occasionally, so maybe that’s the route I start with. At this moment in time, though, I’m ok if I don’t start getting very active in the church again until kids come into the picture.
@Mrs. Snow Cone: Yep, you’re along my lines of thinking with the guns! When I found out that most Walmart’s around the country sell them, I was blown away. I’m 99% sure the one where I grew up didn’t! It’s just a part of some people’s lives, and not a part of others.
@Miss Doe: Thanks! I do think I personally feel better now that I at least understand how to operate and shoot a gun (aiming is another story).
@caybaybay: Wonderful points.. and yep, I think I’m sheltering my unborn children already, hah! I also found that I occasionally enjoy shooting at the range if I’m in the right mood - can’t believe that ever actually happened!
@Crabbabs: I definitely loved the church community, that’s for sure! In retrospect, though, a large part of me did also like being exposed to religion in the first place - I almost feel like it’s easier to turn away from religion than turn towards it if you never had it. Does that make sense? I know it’s not a steadfast rule, just what I’ve noticed with people around me. I would at least like to give my future kiddos the option, to know what’s out there, then have them make up their minds when they are ready to.
@Mrs. Ticket: We’ve actually had a similar discussion about paying for things like a car and schooling! My mom was a big supporter of having me find a college I loved and we would figure out how to pay for it. Now I did scholarships, loans, and monetary gifts from my grandparents, but I still have a hefty loan I’m paying off. Foxy was the opposite - he wasn’t forced to go to a state school, but anything that cost more than that, he would have to come up with the money himself. I’m definitely a “we’ll help if we can” person and he’s a “they can get a job” person. So interesting!
@Mrs. Spaniel: Amen on the religion front!! If anything, I’d like to give kids the option of knowing and having them experience something similar to what I had growing up. And again, the community is always such a wonderful thing.
@sunbean27: Wonderful advice and input! I too hate the idea of bringing kids to church alone.. I have this idea of a “family unit” and dread the day one might ask “why doesn’t daddy go to church?”. ::crickets:: About the guns - I definitely see the point in using them for hunting. It only makes sense. Growing up on LI and Queens, though, there’s not really a big need for hunting anything. Foxy’s guns are more for protection, which is great, but I’m having a hard time accepting the amount he eventually wants to have.. just for that purpose. I’m hoping the more I’m around them and learn about them, the more comfortable I’ll get.
@MaggieL: Yep, again, community! It really was a fantastic thing to be a part of as a kid.
Guns freak me out too. The weird thing is that I just got my firearms license for work! It’s a very weird feeling knowing that I could now go to a gun store and buy a gun and keep it in my house. I’m not GOING to, I just needed the paperwork for work, but it is a very strange feeling.
I am in the same boat on the religion front… I was raised catholic, went to church every Sunday, my mother is a CCD teacher, my grandmother used to be a nun. I enjoy the idea of religion but don’t particularly agree with the catholic religion, and honestly don’t even feel welcome back into the church as I’m ‘living in sin’ with my fiance and my local priest would not marry me for doing so. Anyways, my fiance is agnostic. He wasn’t raised with any religion, I believe he doesn’t know what to believe, but isn’t against it either, and would have no problem with me taking our children to church - however it’s not something he would take part in. I also hate the idea of going to church alone which is why I haven’t been in so long! Not sure how it will all work out….
@xkandakex: That is seriously a huge melting pot of religions and cultures there.. wow! I’m hoping that as I experience a bit more life and get a bit older, my reasons will become more concrete - what I do know is that I want my kids to believe in something, since that belief has really helped me through some tough times in my life. I see how Foxy goes through hardships and I just really wish he felt that he had somewhere to turn or something to believe in aside from me - he’s more of a loner type when it comes to resolving things. I’m not saying people can’t have that belief if they never had religion in their lives, but I do feel that it should be something that is given a fair chance.
@keltikate: You poor thing! It sounds like you’re working on accepting it (and doing a great job!) - I hope it gets better for you!
@Miss Honey: It’s crazy how we worry about all this stuff now, before kids are even around to worry about! It’s great that you guys seem to have a whole bunch already figured out - I’m envious!
I was the same as you guys when Mr. HW and I first got together. I never grew up around guns at all and was completely terrified of them. The more I learned about gun safety and spent time around them, the less they scared me. I’m not a huge fan still to this day, but I can tolerate them.
For now, we have guns in the house that are not locked up at all. When we have kids, everything is going into a finger print locked safe. We might keep one gun unlocked hidden in the bedroom for home safety’s sake until the kids are old enough to find it/use it. Then everything will be locked up. No questions.
OMG, you and Mr. Foxy are me and my FI. I am the agnostic, gun loving girl and he is you. LOL. Thanks for sharing. Like you said, it is funny how some stuff just doesn’t matter until you start talking about starting a family.
FH is religious and I am an atheist. We will be raising our children to be aware of religion and what goes with it (aka “Some people believe in God, like Daddy, and some people don’t, like Mommy.”, and then gradually going into deeper detail about different religions and their basis, but we won’t be teaching them a specific denomination. IF they decide that they believe in God/religion after being exposed to as many different viewpoints as possible, then all the more power to them, and they will be able to choose for themselves which denomination (if any) they want to follow.
We’ll be getting a lot of ideas from “Parenting Beyond Belief” by Dale McGowan. (Google it…it’s SUCH a good resource!)
As for guns…no. Just no. Neither FH nor I think that guns are a good idea, and they will not be present in our house. We haven’t made a decision yet on toy guns, etc., yet though.
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Miss Fox, Washington DC/Havre de Grace, MD Age and Occupation: 26, Massage Therapist Fiance's Age and Occupation: 28, Field Support Engineer Engagement Date: April 18, 2010 Wedding Date: June 2012 Venue: Vandiver Inn About Me: I’m a dancer turned massage therapist who was born and raised in New York. Alas, true love has brought me “south” where I still maintain my penchants for pretty shoes, wine, crossword puzzles, cherry blossoms, and the Mets. I own more sunglasses than a normal person should and don’t eat red meat (though I make up for it by eating my weight in sushi). I tend to be a big planner who likes to get things started early, but generally end up being indecisive and procrastinating when it comes down to it. I have a (not so) secret crush on Chris Carrabba, but my loyalty and love ultimately goes to the future hubs, of course! Together, my Foxy man and I love to discuss (read: debate) politics and current events, have Mario Kart and Scrabble duels, and just laugh. A lot. We’re hoping and planning for a laid back, fun, summery, rustic vibe to our June wedding that will be genuinely “us” – that is, if we finally make some decisions. Huzzah!
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